Player Features and Ideas Discussion

There should be a greater focus on the value of skills with respect to the time needed to train them in the gunnery tree. I am going to argue this with one small example, Small Energy Turrets IV, but the principal can be applied elsewhere to improve these certificates. The principal of maximizing damage per skill point suggests that the Small Energy Turret Certification should require Small Beam Specialization 3 and Small Pulse Specialization 3, and might only require Gunnery 4.

Small Energy Turret Certificate level 4 requires Gunnery 5, Small Beam Specialization 1, and Small Pulse Specialization 1. A player would be better served to increase their Small Beam Specialization to 3 than increase Gunnery from 4 to 5.

Now for a bunch of numbers dealing with marginal gains for each skill point spent. The benefits of Gunnery 5 are 2% increase in firing rate (between 2% and 2.5% increase in damage). The costs of Gunnery 5 are 210745 more skill points than Gunnery 4. Small Beam Specialization increases damage by 2%. The skill cost of going from Small Beam Specialization of 1 to 2 is 3495 skill points. The skill cost of going from Small Beam Specialization of 2 to 3 is 19755. The skill cost of going from Small Beam Specialization of 3 to 4 is 111765. We have two specializations in this certificate so we will multiply the skill point costs by 2. It costs significantly less skill points to increase the specializations to 3 than to increase Gunnery to 5. Thus a smart player maximizing damage per skill point should train those specializations to 3, and then increase Gunnery to 5. Increasing the specialization skills to 4 would cost slightly more than increasing Gunnery, and rate of fire is better anyway.

We can eyeball the numbers as we find them here. There is actually a bit more detailed math which needs to be done involving the Small Energy Turret skill, but the idea of finding the best gains remains. The principal here is that the percent gain in damage should be divided by the skill points to lead players to more efficient skill training.

Certificates look great! Kudos!
Now on to the other features...

push this idea. To see which skills affect a module would be a great help not only for new players

Firstly thanks to CCP Ytterbium for posting this up and for sharing an internal CCP document with us so we can get early eyes on and comment. Fantastic effort there along with the guide of "how to".

Secondly:

Oh how I lol'd in the office!

thanks for focusing on the important stuff

CCP im currently going over the certs, but the elite maybe a tad over the top

why should i train rigging skills to 5, when its normaly enough at 4.
Why should i train Weapons Specialization to 5, when the increase from 4 to 5 is only such a small amount.
Shield Tanking, u normaly dont tank a shield ship completly passive thx to invuls being active so why train it farther than 4.
Refining, will be confusing new players because for perfect refining you need only the ore processing skills at 4.

The rest looks ok in the certificates tab.

Because if they want to make the game more accessable to new pilots they need to fix some of the glaring issues that barred new pilots ease of entry into New Eden.

seconded. No one will allow you to fly capitals in fleets with less than JDC 4, and JFC 4. And I'm pretty sure most are going to require JDC 5, JFC 4. Getting JDC 5 is pretty critical for life as a cap pilot, especially in null. I agree that lvl 4 should be adjusted to better reflect the skills that will ACTUALLY make you a competent cap pilot. Lvl 3 can be more like the current lvl 4.

As a follow up to my post yesterday here are some suggestions for changes to the small turret certificates. I am only focusing on the skills directly related to damage in these specific suggestions. The other skills will be discussed after the suggestions, but they generally remain the same.

Small Energy Turret
Level 1 (different)
Gunnery 2
Small Energy Turret 3
Rapid Firing 2

Level 2 (same)
Gunnery 4
Small Energy Turret 3
Rapid Firing 3
Surgical Strike 3
(Rapid Firing 4 is better than Gunnery 4, but Gunnery 4 opens up Surgical Strike whose low levels make Gunnery 4 worthwhile.)

Level 3 (same)
Gunnery 4
Small Energy Turret 4
Rapid Firing 4
Surgical Strike 4

Level 4 (different)
Gunnery 4
Small Energy Turret 5
Rapid Firing 5 (or 4)
Surgical Strike 4
Small Beam Specialization 3
Small Pulse Specialization 3
(Rapid Firing is better than Gunnery for skill points per damage. Choosing 4 or 5 there should be about the number of skill points you want between certificate levels.)

Level 5
Not discussing.

This template can be copied for the Small Hybrid and Projectile Turrets. A quick look at the Medium Turrets suggests that they are in better shape (Rank 3/5 basic/specialized skill changes things). The initial character skills may modify the skill points for the Level 1 certificate and thus the skill levels.

The other skills change range, tracking, capacitor, and other options. It is harder to rate them against each other. It may make sense to do a second pass over those skills and look at the skill ranks. A high rank may mean the skill is less worth while to study (benefit/skill point).

On a more abstract note it may be good to give yourself and us a descriptive guideline for what each level should show. Is Level 2 reasonably competent? or is that Level 3? Level 5 is insane certificate orientation over character development. Is Level 4 full mastery without insanity?

I was just reading through, an idea for some of the certs. Break them up by Ship class.

So Frigates would have their own 1-5. etc etc etc. So players who want master on their interceptors don't have to have MJD or w/e it is called. There would be more certs over all. but they would be more specific this way to the class of ship, Maybe not so much the role.

But roles could be put in to play with other additions.