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Nullsec anomalies

Author
James Tzashi
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2013-09-30 21:55:04 UTC
I'm finding loads of out of date information on ratting in nullsec and the isk/hr gain. I have only been getting 25 or so ticks in my mach which is supposed to be the best ship for ratting in angel space. Im hearing of people getting 30-45mil ticks??? am i doing something horribly wrong?
Quontor Zarrkos
Island Monkeys
#2 - 2013-09-30 22:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Quontor Zarrkos
It depends on your skills (are your gunnery supports at V, droneskills?) and implants (using at least 3% hardwirings to augment dps?) and they changed the sites around. You used to make more in forsaken hubs before they added elite frigates to them. You also didn't need warriors back then, you could just use a set of 4 bouncers to have more dps against the battleships. Right now you are probably wasting time trying to kill the frigates which are worth almost nothing for bounty. And mach is not the best ratting ship anymore, after they added drone damage amplifiers carriers are actually making more isk if you use them with sentry drones. Their glacial align times will make sure you'll get caught more often though Lol (you could jump out, but then beacons are not safe either). Also, if you have any alts, you can warp them in behind you in carriers/dominixes and abuse this awesome drone 'assist' function to give you more dps without actually having to control those characters too much. With sentries you can oneshot frigates if they are approaching you (which they will if you warp in at range)

I'm not using a mach anymore though so I don't know how they compare after the changes, I imagine the frigates being annoying though.

Edit: also tracking enhancer nerf (they give 10% less falloff now) made the mach a lot worse, it's not too bad for anoms where everything spawns on the warpin point but it still is a factor.
James Tzashi
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2013-09-30 22:04:35 UTC
Yeah i have Maxed gunnery and drone skills after being very disappointed with the isk/hr i have two domi alts to help with dps still getting terrible ticks :L
Quontor Zarrkos
Island Monkeys
#4 - 2013-09-30 22:13:56 UTC
with two domis I get 20mill ticks on each account, so with a machariel and two domis you should be able to do 150mill/hr if you do everything right. That's forsaken hubs right?
James Tzashi
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2013-10-01 18:49:27 UTC
I'm getting 15mil ticks granted they arnt fully skilled domis yet
Cyrus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-10-01 19:19:33 UTC
First off, people lie about what they actually make. Carrier with bouncers is the undisputed best isk/hour and that makes 35 mil per tick. Anyone claiming to make more per tick is failing to mention the low ticks (25m) as well as the average ticks (32-36m) and acting like those 40-45m ticks happen every 20 minutes. Those 40m ticks are ones with a domination spawn.
James Tzashi
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2013-10-01 19:30:30 UTC
So running havens in a carrier is the best possible isk/hr your going to get ratting?
Deathsan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-10-01 19:47:01 UTC
Cyrus wrote:
First off, people lie about what they actually make. Carrier with bouncers is the undisputed best isk/hour and that makes 35 mil per tick. Anyone claiming to make more per tick is failing to mention the low ticks (25m) as well as the average ticks (32-36m) and acting like those 40-45m ticks happen every 20 minutes. Those 40m ticks are ones with a domination spawn.


What kind of non-capital setup is getting those 25-35mil ticks? I've been trying to improve my setup for months to no success.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-10-01 21:40:14 UTC
Deathsan wrote:
Cyrus wrote:
First off, people lie about what they actually make. Carrier with bouncers is the undisputed best isk/hour and that makes 35 mil per tick. Anyone claiming to make more per tick is failing to mention the low ticks (25m) as well as the average ticks (32-36m) and acting like those 40-45m ticks happen every 20 minutes. Those 40m ticks are ones with a domination spawn.


What kind of non-capital setup is getting those 25-35mil ticks? I've been trying to improve my setup for months to no success.

My guess would be a pirate BS hull with lots of bling and implants.
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-10-01 21:56:51 UTC
James Tzashi wrote:
So running havens in a carrier is the best possible isk/hr your going to get ratting?


The carrier is the best isk/hr. While forsaken hubs are a bit better for isk due to a higher BS to frigate ratio, Havens and sanctums have a chance to escalate to a 10/10. This is where your deadspace mach comes into play. With the Carrier, you can expect an average tick to be 35m, and ticks that include a Domination to be 42-45 mil. Forsaken hubs should pull you in a few extra mil per tick if you are not wasting time warping to them only to find it already claimed.

[Thanatos, ratter]
Capital Armor Repairer I
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Cap Recharger II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Capital Drone Control Range Augmentor I
Capital Drone Control Range Augmentor I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I

1307 DPS with bouncers. over 110km control and fire range. Zero transversial since everything will be flying toward you.



Deathsan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-10-01 22:07:51 UTC
Mathias Orsen wrote:
James Tzashi wrote:
So running havens in a carrier is the best possible isk/hr your going to get ratting?


The carrier is the best isk/hr. While forsaken hubs are a bit better for isk due to a higher BS to frigate ratio, Havens and sanctums have a chance to escalate to a 10/10. This is where your deadspace mach comes into play. With the Carrier, you can expect an average tick to be 35m, and ticks that include a Domination to be 42-45 mil. Forsaken hubs should pull you in a few extra mil per tick if you are not wasting time warping to them only to find it already claimed.

[Thanatos, ratter]
Capital Armor Repairer I
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Cap Recharger II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Capital Drone Control Range Augmentor I
Capital Drone Control Range Augmentor I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I

1307 DPS with bouncers. over 110km control and fire range. Zero transversial since everything will be flying toward you.





So switch bouncers to racially appropriate sentries as necessary? Ignoring amarr drones of course.
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-10-01 22:17:57 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Deathsan wrote:
Cyrus wrote:
First off, people lie about what they actually make. Carrier with bouncers is the undisputed best isk/hour and that makes 35 mil per tick. Anyone claiming to make more per tick is failing to mention the low ticks (25m) as well as the average ticks (32-36m) and acting like those 40-45m ticks happen every 20 minutes. Those 40m ticks are ones with a domination spawn.


What kind of non-capital setup is getting those 25-35mil ticks? I've been trying to improve my setup for months to no success.

My guess would be a pirate BS hull with lots of bling and implants.


That would be a good guess. The mach should have no problem hitting 25-28 mil a tick with 35-38m if you had a faction BS spawn. You will certainly need 800mm t2 Autocannons, 4 faction gyrostabs and the gunnery implants would be very recommended. the RF-905 and LP-1005 will give a combined 11% DPS boost. You will also need faction ammo.

You are looking at just under 1200 DPS turrets though, Over 1300 DPS if you break out some medium drones. While this is actually more DPS than the carrier, you have transversial and range often going against you which slow you down. You could pull 30m+ consistanly but it is going to be more work than just using a carrier and sentries. It's going to be more expensive than a Carrier and sentries. You will be eating up mass quantities of ammo.

A mach should look something similar (similar being a big word here) to...

[Machariel, Muay Thai rat ]
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Tracking Enhancer
Domination Tracking Enhancer
Domination Tracking Enhancer

Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Selynne's Modified Cap Recharger
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
Vepas' Modified Cloaking Device

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hammerhead II x5
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-10-01 22:22:38 UTC
Deathsan wrote:


So switch bouncers to racially appropriate sentries as necessary? Ignoring amarr drones of course.


Not really sure why you would ignore amarr drones. Against Sansha and blood raiders, where EM and Thermal are your weapon of choice, Curators are the drone of choice. Using Gardes quickly becomes a problem sense you have to be close range. At that point, the rats start trying to pick off your drones.

Wardens do the Least DPS of the Sentry drones but If you are trying to rat in Guristas space, it's just something you have to learn to live with.
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-10-01 22:30:23 UTC
James Tzashi wrote:
I'm getting 15mil ticks granted they arnt fully skilled domis yet


If you are going to use Battleships, Domis are a great way to go. One Domi and one Mach is an awesome way to go. Have the Domi's drones assist the other ship. Keep in mind that drones that are assisting a player will only assist that player's ship, not his drones. You will need an aggessing module with a fast cycle time to control the assisting drones. Turrets are typically the best option. Target painters are a horrible option.
Bibosikus
Air
#15 - 2013-10-02 00:13:36 UTC
When it comes to ticks in anoms, frankly, it always comes down to a lot of bull. Forget the boasts & brags in the forums, and think about yourself. To quote Desiderata (roughly), "There will always be people greater AND lesser than yourself".

So, focus on
a) your skills and
b) how you could be improving your applied dps.

Practise, times infinity. Play about, learn, adjust, and improve.

And do not take the stupid figures people bandy about for gospel.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-10-02 03:44:44 UTC
Bibosikus wrote:
When it comes to ticks in anoms, frankly, it always comes down to a lot of bull. Forget the boasts & brags in the forums, and think about yourself. To quote Desiderata (roughly), "There will always be people greater AND lesser than yourself".

So, focus on
a) your skills and
b) how you could be improving your applied dps.

Practise, times infinity. Play about, learn, adjust, and improve.

And do not take the stupid figures people bandy about for gospel.




You forgot to mention
c) ask those who have already spent years doing both "A" and "B".
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#17 - 2013-10-02 03:46:08 UTC
I'm getting 15M ticks in my carrier. I know I'm doing it wrong though. Chimera's are kind of hard because of the mid slot tank.

[Chimera, New Setup 1]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Capital Shield Booster I

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Control Unit I
Drone Control Unit I

Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I

Bouncer I x11

http://i.imgur.com/XLqAJ8F.jpg
Any tips? I'm working on T2 sentries which will vastly improve on DPS

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt

Enduros
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2013-10-02 06:55:43 UTC
Cyrus wrote:
First off, people lie about what they actually make. Carrier with bouncers is the undisputed best isk/hour and that makes 35 mil per tick. Anyone claiming to make more per tick is failing to mention the low ticks (25m) as well as the average ticks (32-36m) and acting like those 40-45m ticks happen every 20 minutes. Those 40m ticks are ones with a domination spawn.

35mil is indeed average on a carrier if you do everything right. Unfortunate reality is that usually people get closer to 30 even in carrier. Depending on anom+skills+fit+plants you can get same out of a mach but it's much more work. Mach can do havens for example pretty well cause most bs aren't long range and you can clear small trash much easier then a carrier would.

Carrier 35mil ticks:
3x DCU, 2x links, 2x omni, 4x dda, 13x bouncer II
Warp in at about 70km (hubs, sanctums) and blow up small trash from range before sentries start having tracking problems on frigs and other trash (20-30km and under they will not track reliably). Key is to explode everything before they get under sentries so small trash first then any close range BS. Blowing all the triggers is fine cause lol carrier tank it doesn't really matter what.

Mach 35mil ticks
T2 Guns, 4x faction gyro, 3x TE, RoF rig, 2x 5% plants
Running havens and anything else you can do while in 10-25km range. Frigs first then everything else. Bad in hubs and sanctums where rats fly 40km out and you fly around too much. Also close range BS do pisspoor applied DPS so you don't need to stress your tank much. To get the same kind of running speed in a sanctum for example you will need crystals in your head so that you don't need to worry about speed tanking.

Tarn Kugisa wrote:

I'm getting 15M ticks in my carrier. I know I'm doing it wrong though. Chimera's are kind of hard because of the mid slot tank.

Which carrier doesn't matter, you only need 1 repper and 1 t2 eanm or t2 invuln. That's all the tank you need. Your problem is bad drone skills. You need to have 13x bouncer IIs on a carrier. My rattle is getting 18mil average, you need better drone skills.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#19 - 2013-10-02 09:34:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Mathias Orsen wrote:
Deathsan wrote:


So switch bouncers to racially appropriate sentries as necessary? Ignoring amarr drones of course.


Not really sure why you would ignore amarr drones. Against Sansha and blood raiders, where EM and Thermal are your weapon of choice, Curators are the drone of choice. Using Gardes quickly becomes a problem sense you have to be close range. At that point, the rats start trying to pick off your drones.

Wardens do the Least DPS of the Sentry drones but If you are trying to rat in Guristas space, it's just something you have to learn to live with.


I agree curator IIs are damn fine drones and can be used interchangeably with garde IIs in the appropriate space and usually take the exact same number of salvos to kill something and give you more reach.

The last time I checked my garde IIs were managing 2 salvos less to kill a middle range gurista battleship (1.1m bounty) than warden IIs, from a droneboat proteus with 3 DDA IIs. (that should be sufficiently reproducible for someone to verify).

The effect is more obvious on a gurista battlecruiser, since it has less overall resists (which means difference between its kinetic and thermal resist is less in absolute sense too), and the gardes from the proteus sometiimes 2 shot them, where as the wardens never seem to quite pull it off. This is actually important because to a moving proteus 10 bc's do more damage than 10 battleships.

The boundaries of the discrete effects will of course be different when viewed from a dominix or ishtar that may have more raw drone dps.

There doesn't seem to be any pressing reason to fight from warden range, ie I take the same damage, and I can already pick off the elite frigates before they get under the rails or the sentries tracking.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#20 - 2013-10-02 11:46:24 UTC
With good relevant skills (most skills @ 5 minus the gunnery/drone specilizations), 5% implants and 100% attention on EVE its pretty easy to pull in average 30 mil ticks in a Machariel anywhere in nullsec. 80% gun dps @ optimal + 50% falloff and 4 sentries makes the Machariel a beast out to about 35 km when fit properly.

Not today spaghetti.

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