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To start a mission running alt

Author
Leo Sagan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-09-28 08:41:17 UTC
Hey guys,

I'm considering starting a mission running alt and I definitely need advices.

My wishes / goal :

1) To be able to run level 4s comfortably (I prefer killing everything, no blitzing)

2) I don't want to use drones anymore, or at least not heavily : my main is Gallente and I want to try a different playstyle.

3) In the end, I want an efficient setup, reasonably safe and easy to learn

4) Not sure it's important but later I'd like to try incursions and I hear that a shield setup is more popular to find a fleet. Should I take that into account so early in my alt career ?

What would you suggest, knowing that I'm a semi newbie ? Is there an online step by step guide you would recommend ? I found many ressources on the web but I'm not really able to pick the good ones so it doesn't help.

Thanks in advance
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-09-28 09:52:54 UTC
Probably Caldari or Minmatar might be good for you, given your parameters. Amarr mission runners are generally either laser-based or drone-based; you've said you want to get away from drones, and lasers are quite weak against several types of rats (notably Guristas and Angels).

Caldari and Minmatar both allow you to try shield-based setups; the best starting L4 boats for them would probably be the Raven and the Maelstrom, respectively. The Raven is probably a bit easier, because it's based on cruise missiles which don't require as much worry about relative transverse velocities; the Maelstrom has two significantly different setups based on whether it's engaging at long range or short range (using artillery and autocannons respectively). With a Raven, you don't have to worry about rats "getting under your guns".

Both are good with active shield tanking, though the Maelstrom has a hull bonus that improves the effectiveness of shield boosters. The Raven has a seventh mid-slot to compensate, though that may be taken up by a target painter.

If you're thinking of going into incursions, you might get a benefit from training Minmatar ships, weapons, and support skills: the Tempest battleship is a good, versatile beginning incursion boat, and that training path leads to the Machariel, which a lot of people consider to be the premier mission runner/incursion boat in the entire game at the moment. (Others swear by the Nightmare, which as an Amarr/Caldari boat, takes almost the exact opposite training path, though it does utilize shield tanking.)

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-09-28 11:25:21 UTC
Roll Caldari. Train Shields and long range Missiles.

Your ship progression should look like this: Kestrel - Caracal - Drake - Raven - CNR. Your weapon progression should look like this: Light Missiles - Heavy Missiles - T2 Light Drones - T2 Medium Drones - Cruise Missiles - T2 Cruise Missiles.

This will let you run L4s like a baws. Once that's done cross-train Amarr, get in a Nightmare and go for Incursions.
Eggs Ackley
#4 - 2013-09-28 17:12:57 UTC
Ifly Uwalk wrote:
Roll Caldari. Train Shields and long range Missiles.

Your ship progression should look like this: Kestrel - Caracal - Drake - Raven - CNR. Your weapon progression should look like this: Light Missiles - Heavy Missiles - T2 Light Drones - T2 Medium Drones - Cruise Missiles - T2 Cruise Missiles.

This will let you run L4s like a baws. Once that's done cross-train Amarr, get in a Nightmare and go for Incursions.


QFT
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#5 - 2013-09-28 17:20:17 UTC
Normally I'd suggest Rattlesnake as it does that style the best. (( Best incursion anchor too ))

Since you don't want drones as a main weapon type just grab any T2 or faction BS that has the weapon type you enjoy.

Pirate faction is the best bet if you use a noctis. These get into incursions very easy. (( Avoid the Bhalgore as it's mainly PvP ))
Other wise use a Marauder and clean as you go but be warned incursions will not be half as easy to get into.
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-09-28 18:18:05 UTC
When put into action, All Auto-cannon ships perform much more efficiently than and cruise missile boat. Cruise missiles look good on paper (or EFT) but the damage application is very low compared to turrets. Turrets require more training but give a better result in the end.

What makes autocannons better than other turret types is the ability to change damage types so they will work against all rats. The downside to autocannon boats usually falls in the defense area. The mach will give you the extra range to autocannons with it's bonus. The Vargur will boast a stronger tank but need to move in closer to apply damage.

At lower skill points, Drone and missile boats are better than turret boats. This is the point where most people claim that Caldari ships are better and then invest everything into those class of ships. Turret boats often take a bigger investment in skill and gear but in the end have a higher performance peak.

For most cases as far as lvl 3 and 4 missions go, the sleipnir is a solid investment. The DPS is moderate and it has a good tank for PVE.
Ginger Barbarella
#7 - 2013-09-28 19:06:13 UTC
My suggestion would be Minmatar, and get into T2 projectile. The projectile boats are very good across the spectrum, from Rifter/Wolf to Machariel (for your Incursion and fast PVE L4's). There are some decent Minnie missile boats, too...

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Leo Sagan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-09-28 21:09:13 UTC
Thanks to you all for all these quick and precious replies. I finally decided to go for the caldari path and my alt is currently training for a kestrel. I won't rush so this will take a while until I get my BS but I'm sure I won't regret the wait Big smile
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-09-28 22:03:38 UTC
tengu works in L4's

it also has no drone bay
Garak n00biachi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-09-29 01:42:18 UTC
Leo Sagan wrote:
Thanks to you all for all these quick and precious replies. I finally decided to go for the caldari path and my alt is currently training for a kestrel. I won't rush so this will take a while until I get my BS but I'm sure I won't regret the wait Big smile


Hitting F1 constantly will be a change of pace from hitting that F key every 4 seconds....to abuse a quote from some old knight "you chose poorly".
Leo Sagan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-09-29 11:06:43 UTC
Quote:
Hitting F1 constantly will be a change of pace from hitting that F key every 4 seconds....to abuse a quote from some old knight "you chose poorly".


Lol, maybe : how would I know ? But after all, it's not that important I guess. At worst, I'll have to create another alt to try another setup and CCP's fat cats will be happy with my money ! :-)

Anyway, thanks for your reply !
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-09-29 19:28:03 UTC
Quote:
At worst, I'll have to create another alt to try another setup and CCP's fat cats will be happy with my money ! :-)

Why would you create a new alt if you're not happy with the skill path this alt is on?

I'd say the hyperion, it can get into scrub fleets in incursions with a shield tank.
Its a gun boat, your drone skills aren't wasted.
Shield taking is not skill intensive at all: tactical shield manifuplation -> 4 (actually, don't even need it this high if you use faction/deadspace hardeners), shield management to 4/5
Done (as far as incursions are concerned).

Or... a Rokh... It gets into non-shiny fleets easily enough.

Your missile skills and support skills are basically wasted if you focus on incursions after a while.
In a Rokh, you'll at least have the support skills and half the BS skills for a nightmare.

When you're "done" training on a rokh, you've got:
Controlled bursts
Sharpshooter
Rapid firing
Trajectory analysis
motion prediction
- all of which you won't have from a missile boat

Then you just train the amarr BS and small->medium-> large energy turrets, and you're set for a nightmare.
(or, just train the BS skills, and get a vindi)
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2013-09-29 19:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Cage Man
If you interested in Incursions you should aim for a vindi, Mach or NM. Just pick lasers, projectiles or hybrids and you can use the T1 and navy version on the way up. You can do incursions in all sorts of ships, but if you want to get into the big isk making fleets.. you want Pirate faction.. trust me.
Gallente use turrets too btw, not only drones.
Not sure what impact the new rapid light heavy missiles will have, but unless they travel at the speed of lasors and come with a pirate faction missile BS.. they not going to be used by the leet fleets in incursions either.

Edit--- I love the NM and lasors and prefer it to the others for what its worth.. so do that Blink
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#14 - 2013-09-30 17:33:33 UTC
Tengu is used in all incursion fleets and RNI is needed in HQ/AS mostly. Caldari is fine.

You would make more money in missions in the mach, and get picked quicker in Incursions in the Mach, but it wont be anything to loose sleep over.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Deathsan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-10-01 21:45:38 UTC
I've been running a Raven to disappointing results (10mil ticks in Guristas Forsaken Hubs) which isn't surprising given how bad my missile and associated missile support skills are.

My gunnery support skills are all at least 4, with one or two at 5, I want to to try a turret ship. Now while I'd rather use my laser ships, the damage profile is less than ideal against Guristas in my neck of the woods. What's the Minmatar ship progression for anomalies?
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2013-10-02 00:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Cage Man
Deathsan wrote:
I've been running a Raven to disappointing results (10mil ticks in Guristas Forsaken Hubs) which isn't surprising given how bad my missile and associated missile support skills are.

My gunnery support skills are all at least 4, with one or two at 5, I want to to try a turret ship. Now while I'd rather use my laser ships, the damage profile is less than ideal against Guristas in my neck of the woods. What's the Minmatar ship progression for anomalies?


A naga will work if you careful with the frigs, just burn away before they spawn. A talos is perhaps safer as it has drones to deal with the frigs. I found a HAM tengu to work better than a raven. Otherwise a shield domi is a popular choice if you have decent sentry skills.

EDIT --- mach is not great in guristas space btw
Kara Trix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-10-02 05:22:46 UTC
I know the OP has chosen Caldari, which is fine.

I have 6 characters that I mission with atm and while running dual or more screens you pretty much have to be into missiles or there is too much management going on.

My current skill progression for the alts I've made have worked very well, and they are.


1) skill Caracal Navy Issue (with Rapid Light Missile Launchers) and you can do level 3 missions within 10 days with no issues. Train just to level 3 on Caldari Cruisers though.
2) move into a Typhoon and train Cruise T1 missiles. I wouldn't even bother with T2 Cruise due to the Explosion radius and cost for missiles compared to T1. Passive tank the BS like you would a drake. I like the Typhoon best because of the lows... allows for Shield Power Relays and Ballistic II for damage. Get some light drones for the small frigs, T1 is fine.

Here is a fit for the Typhoon alts I have.

Lows (7)

BCS II x 4
DCU II x 1
Shield Power Relay x 2

Mids
LSE II x 3
Invul II x 2

Highs
Drone Link Aug I x 1
Arbalest Cruise x 6

Rigs
Large Purger 1 x 3

Stats with a 5m SP toon with T1 weapons.

DPS 560 (480 Missiles, 80 Drones)
Passive Recharge per second 72hp
Shield Resists = em 55, therm 64, ken 73, exp 78
You can change out the hardeners for Ken and Therm since it's just one rat type you're dealing with. I like to omnitank it.

Typhoon is faster than Raven and costs a bit less as well. Bigger drone bay, etc..

If you dual box, both ships take damage and the above fit works fine.