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A review of player giveaways with CCP and third party sites

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Edward Pierce
State War Academy
Caldari State
#561 - 2013-09-28 13:34:04 UTC
Abditus Cularius wrote:
Sure thing, kiddo.

You carry on with the righteous crusade.

I'll look forward to seeing your article about it on Reddit.

oh wait....

Holy **** Andski, you struck a nerve with this one. This is some hardcore white knight **** going on in here.

I hadn't seen the "kiddo" in a while, he must be frothing.
Edward Pierce
State War Academy
Caldari State
#562 - 2013-09-28 13:41:06 UTC
Abditus Cularius wrote:
Again, I get why someone whose august resume includes GoonWaffe and EN24 mk2 wouldn't know this - and how your elite reporting skills could miss the link three posts down from the one you quoted - but the favoritism you're complaining about isn't new.

At all.

This has been the way of Eve for the last 10 years, at the very least.

This isn't even the biggest case of giving stuff out to player organizations publically.

It's not even the 3rd time this has happened since 09 nubbins like you started playing.

Player organizations that do things CCP like for the community get CCP endorsement.

I understand that you didn't know this, and now that someone has spoon fed you the knowledge you feel like the game has changed.

But it hasn't.

You've just seen a part of it you were oblivious to in your little corner, previously.

Abditus Cularius wrote:
Here you go https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Apocalypse_Imperial_Issue

And I won't even require a cut of your banner add revenue for having done your research for you.

I get the feeling this guy wants to write for TheMittani.com really really badly.

"But guys, CCP has been doing dumb **** for decades, it's totally cool now" best non-ironic argument I've seen so far.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#563 - 2013-09-28 14:04:54 UTC
Hey guys I read know a bunch of stuff about Eve history because I was there, please ignore my 2012 reg date, and let me tell you how dumb you are for not knowing a bunch of Eve trivia that I looked up witnessed first hand, kiddo. Also, I am really smart and totally not a shill. Hi.
Memnon Shepard
The Occupation.
#564 - 2013-09-28 16:37:00 UTC
We almost got out of the ad hominem muck for a few pages...

Now everyone who thinks supporting player-driven efforts to increase live turnout (without initial guarantee of any profit outside of marketing value) are SOMER alts colluding or don't understand capitalism. At least I haven't heard the gambling addict claim for awhile.

Groups who want CCP sponsorship, make arguments pointing to the marketing campaigns you've created that simultaneously redistribute tons of ISK back into the Eve community fairly. Indicate the individual player projects you've supported with your profits, how you've driven turnout to events, and propose a method for distributing those prizes across 95% of the Eve population (yeah it's currently not a perfect method, we get it). If CCP is looking to move forward with stuff like this, which a lot of the people I've talked to seem to be OK with, act like businesses and figure out how to benefit from it.
E'lyna Mis Dimaloun
REUNI0N
Against ALL Authorities
#565 - 2013-09-28 16:44:29 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
Andski wrote:
I think Ranger 1 somehow confuses Somer Blink for a charity.

Based on his pro CCP "can do no wrong" opinions throughout the star gate animation thread and the walking in stations fiasco thread, I think he is really trying hard to get a job at CCP as a yes man...

...or he's a dev alt.


Bingo :) Was way too obvious in the NOS mechanic changes dev blog. But certainly too stupid to be a dev alt.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#566 - 2013-09-28 16:51:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Memnon Shepard wrote:
Groups who want CCP sponsorship, make arguments pointing to the marketing campaigns you've created that simultaneously redistribute tons of ISK back into the Eve community fairly. Indicate the individual player projects you've supported with your profits, how you've driven turnout to events, and propose a method for distributing those prizes across 95% of the Eve population (yeah it's currently not a perfect method, we get it). If CCP is looking to move forward with stuff like this, which a lot of the people I've talked to seem to be OK with, act like businesses and figure out how to benefit from it.


We're asking CCP to use common ******* sense in who they sponsor. Writing blank checks for a for-profit group, or giving anybody a bunch of unique stuff no strings attached is not the right approach, at all.

It's like if they gave Goonswarm BPOs for T3s, and announced it. We'd be the only group in the entire game with such a thing, and I bet you wouldn't be white knighting in that case! CCP would still be wrong.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#567 - 2013-09-28 17:04:43 UTC
Andski wrote:
Memnon Shepard wrote:
Groups who want CCP sponsorship, make arguments pointing to the marketing campaigns you've created that simultaneously redistribute tons of ISK back into the Eve community fairly. Indicate the individual player projects you've supported with your profits, how you've driven turnout to events, and propose a method for distributing those prizes across 95% of the Eve population (yeah it's currently not a perfect method, we get it). If CCP is looking to move forward with stuff like this, which a lot of the people I've talked to seem to be OK with, act like businesses and figure out how to benefit from it.


We're asking CCP to use common ******* sense in who they sponsor. Writing blank checks for a for-profit group, or giving anybody a bunch of unique stuff no strings attached is not the right approach, at all.

It's like if they gave Goonswarm BPOs for T3s, and announced it. We'd be the only group in the entire game with such a thing, and I bet you wouldn't be white knighting in that case! CCP would still be wrong.


Except in that case, people would be hatin' on the decision because of "Grr Goons".
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#568 - 2013-09-28 17:23:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Sirane Elrek
Memnon Shepard wrote:
If CCP is looking to move forward with stuff like this, which a lot of the people I've talked to seem to be OK with, act like businesses and figure out how to benefit from it.

Well, a lot of the people I've talked to are certainly not OK with CCP devs arbitrarily spawning free ingame stuff to people they like, to do with as they like, and without any oversight. As such, I hope you understand if I refrain from making a case why Goonswarm should get free stuff for their community interaction.
sally Deninard
mss industry
#569 - 2013-09-28 17:37:59 UTC
Nobody has come up with a way for people banned from blink to compete for these unique ships yet?
Untill they do, then the draw will always discriminate and be flawed.
If somer were a 3rd party site that had no banning policy , then the draw could be at least fair.... but it`s not.
Use your heads people.
RUS Comannder
Writing Memoirs
#570 - 2013-09-28 17:47:12 UTC
I am reading over an over again:

waaah, waaah, giving a third party trillions in isk... wrong... why didn't you give it to us... waaah..... If I go on Blink I'll have a small chance to win it...... if you give it to us we can rig it so it looks legit.....

It might interest you to know that CCP called up Eve on Friday morning and asked them to put this together. Eve did not ask for this. They fight everyday to prove their legitimacy by delivering what they promise and now CCP has changed what they were supposed to deliver which damages Blinks credibility. So many on the blink forum have stated they wish Blink would taker over CCP, or at least teach them how to do customer service.

Item - people complain about having their blink accounts closed and not getting back their ISK - TRUTH - When players fail to read the rules which state "no automation" and then write scripts which are similar to the ones that work well in Jita, but not in Blink and get get caught and they will get caught, Blink does not refund the ISK they stole while breaking the rules. If hey are locked out now from playing Blink lotteries it is because they risked cheating and lost., so take a lesson and enjoy the other fine parts of eve.

Item - Tired complaints answered many times getting tossed up again to muddy waters.

Player has wins before player was born. Blink allows one blink account per PERSON. If a person creates a new player and transfers the older blink account then that new player will have Blink wins before that new player was born. Anyone knowing the rules or having spent 30 minutes on the blink forum just lurking will know this but Blink haters read it on a forum from years ago and do know research which casts a pall of low credibility over everything they say.

Item - What is random? Blink uses two methods, One is for blinks and the number are generated by Random.org. Random.org provided winning number for state and federal lotteries held within many countries, It is a think tank from a university and to date there has been no pattern discovered after billions of alpha-numbers provided to such agencies the US Department of Defense which consumes hundreds of thousands of random numbers daily for such things as nuclear launch codes to frequently changed frequencies, call-signs often changed daily for ever airplane, every element of every division down to squad level. If you would like, visit Random.Org and ask for 1000 winning number between 1 and 16 inclusive then instantly play them on blink to see how that works out. Or request on and then immediately play it. - Good Luck, lol. Random is not a computer driven random number generator. Go visit the site and read how they derive at true random numbers.

The second system is Chribbas Dice. I know Chribba has said his dice program is fair and I thoroughly believe it, He has also stated, I believe, that once the dice are rolled, the announcement of the number is out of his hands. Perhaps Blink will ask Chribba to role the dice and announce the winning number. I believe the method Blink uses of publishing the lists of player numbers prior to the roll and then unlocking the dice is totally fair and transparent method, but maybe they will take it further and have Blink, Chribba, CCP, The CSM and two tourists in Iceland observe the drawing. Jimmy Carter hasn't got much to do these days, maybe he will observe and lend hos ex-Presidential seal of approval.

I know it is a wall of text and many will say TLDR, but the world of knowledge cannot be condensed to a few tweets, so many who cannot absorb anything larger than a tweet will just always be in the dark.

I would hate to be the person who wins any ot this as you will become the image of hatred of all the haters who hate someone got something they did not., because if you win something they did not, it could only be because you had to have cheated. Been there, done that, still getting hate mail on my eve account.
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#571 - 2013-09-28 18:02:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Rob Crowley
RUS Comannder wrote:
I am reading over an over again:

waaah, waaah, giving a third party trillions in isk... wrong...
Please don't misquote me, I'm sure I used more waaahs than that.

Quote:
why didn't you give it to us... waaah.....
You're not very good at reading, are you? I guess it might be an issue of language barrier. No-one seriously asked to get it instead.

Quote:
Eve did not ask for this.
Exactly! First thing I can agree with.

Quote:
I know it is a wall of text and many will say TLDR, but the world of knowledge cannot be condensed to a few tweets, so many who cannot absorb anything larger than a tweet will just always be in the dark.
The length of your text is not a problem, that your whole wall of text is completely besides the point of this thread is a problem though. Protip: it's not about Somer.
Yhor Pita
#572 - 2013-09-28 18:42:59 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
Protip: it's not about Somer.


This right here.

It's about CCP yet again using the sandbox to 'take a dump'. Promoting events and congratulatory speech isn't the issue. Spawning in-game items for a community (any community) that excludes any significant, actively subscribed, portion of the playerbase is a serious issue. One that will likely continue until the sandbox:crap ratio is enough of a stench that even cute little expansion videos on twitch cannot cover the stink.
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#573 - 2013-09-28 18:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Sid Hudgens
Vald Tegor wrote:

Gambling is entirely against certain Islamic beliefs and even Catholics have guidelines as to when it is morally acceptable to gamble (Which SOMER Blink may or may not meet).

Gambling is a highly regulated activity and playing Blink is an illegal activity in places around the world.


What a bunch of absolute nonsense.

How does scamming, stealing, killing and encouraging suicide fit with those religions?

ffs...

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Memnon Shepard
The Occupation.
#574 - 2013-09-28 19:01:24 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
Vald Tegor wrote:

Gambling is entirely against certain Islamic beliefs and even Catholics have guidelines as to when it is morally acceptable to gamble (Which SOMER Blink may or may not meet).

Gambling is a highly regulated activity and playing Blink is an illegal activity in places around the world.


What a bunch of absolute nonsense.

How does scamming, stealing, killing and encouraging suicide fit with those religions?

ffs...


Confusing sacrilegious behavior in the eyes of different groups and anti-religious behavior meant to persecute different groups is relatively common, cut him some slack :p
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#575 - 2013-09-28 19:01:29 UTC
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
the more i thought about this, the more angry it makes me. so, a player like me can spend hours trying to build and promote a community. a player like me can spend hours 'working' for his isk to further his business goals.... only for the dev to magically spawn items for another entity that basically give them free promotion and a huge isk injection? here i am trying to raise isk to be able to afford a titan,supercarrier, AT ship, t2 bpo, whatever it may be... and you're just going to give enough isk to buy a fleet of titans to an entity that is already one of the wealthiest in game? you're going to promote them as being 'legit' to the detriment of my own business? i'm running multiple accounts here, or at least i was... i am strongly considering just cutting my losses at this point and letting them lapse into oblivion. what's the point of my spending time and 'working' when the devs are just giving stuff out of thin air to preferred groups? do you have any idea how long it would take me to make 1trillion isk? even 100bil isk requires that i have a sharp eye and be active for a month or two, watching contracts and the market like a hawk... i feel like a sucker now. i have 6 active accounts, that's a decent amount of income for CCP per month, yet i'm being treated like a second class citizen here. my money isn't good enough as another guys? fine, maybe i should just withdraw my support then.


Yes I see your point. EVE is a place where everyone should feel like a winner all the time. CCP should give every character some free ships, s few trillion isk and a big hug. Also lets have them divide up all the moon minerals generated in the game and distribute them equally to every player so that nobody feels left out.

In fact, they should add some code so that when if you lose a fight in pvp you automatically win the next one so that people don't feel to down on themselves.

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#576 - 2013-09-28 19:14:35 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
Yes I see your point. EVE is a place where everyone should feel like a winner all the time.
"EVE is a place where no-one should feel like a loser because CCP directly supported his competition." is not the same as "EVE is a place where everyone should feel like a winner."

I kinda suspect you're trolling, so maybe I lose by answering to you. But maybe you're really just not very good at logic.
Tzu Wu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#577 - 2013-09-28 19:25:16 UTC
Andski wrote:
Memnon Shepard wrote:
Groups who want CCP sponsorship, make arguments pointing to the marketing campaigns you've created that simultaneously redistribute tons of ISK back into the Eve community fairly. Indicate the individual player projects you've supported with your profits, how you've driven turnout to events, and propose a method for distributing those prizes across 95% of the Eve population (yeah it's currently not a perfect method, we get it). If CCP is looking to move forward with stuff like this, which a lot of the people I've talked to seem to be OK with, act like businesses and figure out how to benefit from it.


We're asking CCP to use common ******* sense in who they sponsor. Writing blank checks for a for-profit group, or giving anybody a bunch of unique stuff no strings attached is not the right approach, at all.

It's like if they gave Goonswarm BPOs for T3s, and announced it. We'd be the only group in the entire game with such a thing, and I bet you wouldn't be white knighting in that case! CCP would still be wrong.
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#578 - 2013-09-28 19:26:28 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
Sid Hudgens wrote:
Yes I see your point. EVE is a place where everyone should feel like a winner all the time.
"EVE is a place where no-one should feel like a loser because CCP directly supported his competition." is not the same as "EVE is a place where everyone should feel like a winner."

I kinda suspect you're trolling, so maybe I lose by answering to you. But maybe you're really just not very good at logic.



My point is ... if you want to work some kind of promotion deal with CCP then do something exceptional. There are no A's for effort.

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Memnon Shepard
The Occupation.
#579 - 2013-09-28 19:33:04 UTC
Tzu Wu wrote:
Andski wrote:
Memnon Shepard wrote:
Groups who want CCP sponsorship, make arguments pointing to the marketing campaigns you've created that simultaneously redistribute tons of ISK back into the Eve community fairly. Indicate the individual player projects you've supported with your profits, how you've driven turnout to events, and propose a method for distributing those prizes across 95% of the Eve population (yeah it's currently not a perfect method, we get it). If CCP is looking to move forward with stuff like this, which a lot of the people I've talked to seem to be OK with, act like businesses and figure out how to benefit from it.


We're asking CCP to use common ******* sense in who they sponsor. Writing blank checks for a for-profit group, or giving anybody a bunch of unique stuff no strings attached is not the right approach, at all.

It's like if they gave Goonswarm BPOs for T3s, and announced it. We'd be the only group in the entire game with such a thing, and I bet you wouldn't be white knighting in that case! CCP would still be wrong.



You guys understand what White Knighting is, right? It's not discussing your opinion in a level-headed manner on an open forum. BPOs are also different, in my humble opinion, from a few ships that likely won't be flown very often at all. I understand there's anger about profit generated by people bidding for these items through the SOMER Blink website, I'd just like to find a way to keep these promotions going while finding a method of distribution that people can be happy with. If I had a chance to bid on T3 BPOs distributed through the Goons, that the Goons themselves couldn't win, you bet I'd be OK with that.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#580 - 2013-09-28 19:38:17 UTC
Memnon Shepard wrote:
Tzu Wu wrote:
Andski wrote:
Memnon Shepard wrote:
Groups who want CCP sponsorship, make arguments pointing to the marketing campaigns you've created that simultaneously redistribute tons of ISK back into the Eve community fairly. Indicate the individual player projects you've supported with your profits, how you've driven turnout to events, and propose a method for distributing those prizes across 95% of the Eve population (yeah it's currently not a perfect method, we get it). If CCP is looking to move forward with stuff like this, which a lot of the people I've talked to seem to be OK with, act like businesses and figure out how to benefit from it.


We're asking CCP to use common ******* sense in who they sponsor. Writing blank checks for a for-profit group, or giving anybody a bunch of unique stuff no strings attached is not the right approach, at all.

It's like if they gave Goonswarm BPOs for T3s, and announced it. We'd be the only group in the entire game with such a thing, and I bet you wouldn't be white knighting in that case! CCP would still be wrong.



You guys understand what White Knighting is, right? It's not discussing your opinion in a level-headed manner on an open forum. BPOs are also different, in my humble opinion, from a few ships that likely won't be flown very often at all. I understand there's anger about profit generated by people bidding for these items through the SOMER Blink website, I'd just like to find a way to keep these promotions going while finding a method of distribution that people can be happy with. If I had a chance to bid on T3 BPOs distributed through the Goons, that the Goons themselves couldn't win, you bet I'd be OK with that.


And what if goons got to decide who was allowed to bid/have a chance, and could exclude people for their own reasons?

And what if that method gives goons - or whoever - a direct advantage over competing in game groups, via the access to special items only they have, or from the direct endorsements from CCP employees, making unproven, unjustifiable claims about their legitimacy and history?

And why would you be ok with CCP forcing you to deal with any specific in game group in order to access / have a chance at accessing all the content in the game, or special events/give aways?

I'm not.