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Falloff now = Max range
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Sandrestal
Pakistani Taxi Drivers
#1 - 2013-09-28 13:38:47 UTC
Maybe I missed something in one of the expansions but does optimal + falloff not longer equal max range? The reason I ask is for the following 2 examples:

1) With a 150 rail Harpy loaded with spike the info says FO=75 and OPT = 65 so it should be a total range of 150k. Tried shooting a battleship but couldn't hit it until I got within 75k of it.

2) With a beam Zealot loaded with multifreq, info says FO=39 and Opt=25 so total is 64. Tried shooting a wreck at 45k and kept missing. Loaded Aurora, FO=104 and OPT = 90 and hit it just fine (so not a tracking issue)
crazy0146
The Federation of assorted candy
#2 - 2013-09-28 13:40:35 UTC
You don't add them.

In the first example optimal is out to 65km and falloff out to 75km.
Sandrestal
Pakistani Taxi Drivers
#3 - 2013-09-28 13:56:15 UTC
When did this change?
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#4 - 2013-09-28 14:13:01 UTC
The tooltip displays maxrange as optimal + falloff, but the math is still the same. So your harpy would have 65km optimal and 10km falloff, bringing it to a total of 75km.

Likewise the zealot is 25km + 14km = 39km with multifreq and 90km + 14km = 104km with aurora.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
stoicfaux
#5 - 2013-09-28 14:26:26 UTC
Sandrestal wrote:
Maybe I missed something in one of the expansions but does optimal + falloff not longer equal max range? The reason I ask is for the following 2 examples:

1) With a 150 rail Harpy loaded with spike the info says FO=75 and OPT = 65 so it should be a total range of 150k. Tried shooting a battleship but couldn't hit it until I got within 75k of it.

Falloff with spike is 7.5km, not 75km.

Quote:
2) With a beam Zealot loaded with multifreq, info says FO=39 and Opt=25 so total is 64. Tried shooting a wreck at 45k and kept missing. Loaded Aurora, FO=104 and OPT = 90 and hit it just fine (so not a tracking issue)

EFT says 23km optimal + 10km falloff and 81km + 10km.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Sandrestal
Pakistani Taxi Drivers
#6 - 2013-09-28 14:31:57 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
The tooltip displays maxrange as optimal + falloff, but the math is still the same. So your harpy would have 65km optimal and 10km falloff, bringing it to a total of 75km.

Likewise the zealot is 25km + 14km = 39km with multifreq and 90km + 14km = 104km with aurora.


So when I put the cursor over the loaded weapon, the information is deceptively given as what I posted is what the information the guns gave.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#7 - 2013-09-28 14:44:44 UTC
and then you have to talk about optimal + 2x falloff Smile confused yet Smile

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Sandrestal
Pakistani Taxi Drivers
#8 - 2013-09-28 14:53:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sandrestal
stoicfaux wrote:
Sandrestal wrote:
Maybe I missed something in one of the expansions but does optimal + falloff not longer equal max range? The reason I ask is for the following 2 examples:

1) With a 150 rail Harpy loaded with spike the info says FO=75 and OPT = 65 so it should be a total range of 150k. Tried shooting a battleship but couldn't hit it until I got within 75k of it.

Falloff with spike is 7.5km, not 75km..


Gun info says 75 tho now it appears that is a total for FO and Opt.

stoicfaux wrote:
Quote:
2) With a beam Zealot loaded with multifreq, info says FO=39 and Opt=25 so total is 64. Tried shooting a wreck at 45k and kept missing. Loaded Aurora, FO=104 and OPT = 90 and hit it just fine (so not a tracking issue)

EFT says 23km optimal + 10km falloff and 81km + 10km.


Well this is now getting confusing. Undocked Zealot guns say 104/90....Docked the guns say 64/50. There are no active mods for enhancing range (t2 TE's and T2 HE). Yet when I look at the harpy the info is the same whether docked or undocked. Bug or am I daft?

From a wiki page " Falloff is an extra range that goes beyond your optimal range."
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage

So what it looks like is holding your cursor over the turret, the information is false. Never used to be.
Sandrestal
Pakistani Taxi Drivers
#9 - 2013-09-28 15:03:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sandrestal
Harvey James wrote:
and then you have to talk about optimal + 2x falloff Smile confused yet Smile


well here's the problem. During the course of the day I may be in a blasterthron, a sniper tornado, a harpy, a rail nag or a vagabond. I depend on putting my cursor on a turret to find out what my ranges are as I'm not good enough to keep them memorized. So if CCP has changed what the info is, it would be nice for them to fix it and just have the loaded gun info say what the real range is.
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#10 - 2013-09-28 16:50:55 UTC
Sandrestal wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
and then you have to talk about optimal + 2x falloff Smile confused yet Smile


well here's the problem. During the course of the day I may be in a blasterthron, a sniper tornado, a harpy, a rail nag or a vagabond. I depend on putting my cursor on a turret to find out what my ranges are as I'm not good enough to keep them memorized. So if CCP has changed what the info is, it would be nice for them to fix it and just have the loaded gun info say what the real range is.

The real info is a slightly large formula that is of very little use at a glance. This has not changed.

However, if you understand the formula, the given information paints a very good picture of your engagement range. If you do not understand the formula, no amount of given information will help.
So I suggest you familiarize yourself with the formula. Blink
Sandrestal
Pakistani Taxi Drivers
#11 - 2013-09-28 17:13:01 UTC
Kasutra wrote:
Sandrestal wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
and then you have to talk about optimal + 2x falloff Smile confused yet Smile


well here's the problem. During the course of the day I may be in a blasterthron, a sniper tornado, a harpy, a rail nag or a vagabond. I depend on putting my cursor on a turret to find out what my ranges are as I'm not good enough to keep them memorized. So if CCP has changed what the info is, it would be nice for them to fix it and just have the loaded gun info say what the real range is.

The real info is a slightly large formula that is of very little use at a glance. This has not changed.

However, if you understand the formula, the given information paints a very good picture of your engagement range. If you do not understand the formula, no amount of given information will help.
So I suggest you familiarize yourself with the formula. Blink


Yeah, just what I need is a math formula to use every time I take a ship out :P. Realistically why doesn't the turret info give you accurate info?
Eggs Ackley
#12 - 2013-09-28 17:15:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Eggs Ackley
crazy0146 wrote:
You don't add them.

In the first example optimal is out to 65km and falloff out to 75km.



This. Always has been this way. No formulas needed.
Sandrestal
Pakistani Taxi Drivers
#13 - 2013-09-28 18:07:32 UTC
Eggs Ackley wrote:
crazy0146 wrote:
You don't add them.

In the first example optimal is out to 65km and falloff out to 75km.



This. Always has been this way. No formulas needed.


Sorry but I've been playing this game for 8 years. We always added the 2 and my wiki link confirms it.
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#14 - 2013-09-28 18:11:58 UTC
Sandrestal wrote:
Maybe I missed something in one of the expansions but does optimal + falloff not longer equal max range? The reason I ask is for the following 2 examples:

1) With a 150 rail Harpy loaded with spike the info says FO=75 and OPT = 65 so it should be a total range of 150k. Tried shooting a battleship but couldn't hit it until I got within 75k of it.

2) With a beam Zealot loaded with multifreq, info says FO=39 and Opt=25 so total is 64. Tried shooting a wreck at 45k and kept missing. Loaded Aurora, FO=104 and OPT = 90 and hit it just fine (so not a tracking issue)

YOU THOUGHT, THAT WITH A HARPY, YOU COULD HIT OUT TO 150K. AND YOUR CONCLUSION IS "HMM, I WONDER IF SOMETHING CHANGED BUT I'LL TEST IT AT 150K FIRST"??? I'VE GOT A GREAT DEAL FOR YOU, MEET ME IN AMARR.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Ginger Barbarella
#15 - 2013-09-28 18:25:25 UTC
Sandrestal wrote:
Eggs Ackley wrote:
crazy0146 wrote:
You don't add them.

In the first example optimal is out to 65km and falloff out to 75km.



This. Always has been this way. No formulas needed.


Sorry but I've been playing this game for 8 years. We always added the 2 and my wiki link confirms it.


You (and your Wiki link) are incorrect.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Gorn Arming
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-09-28 18:30:45 UTC
It's displayed differently now; the mechanics are the same. What's shown under "falloff" is the actual range at which you hit 1x falloff; i.e. your optimal is included.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#17 - 2013-09-28 18:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Sandrestal wrote:
Eggs Ackley wrote:
crazy0146 wrote:
You don't add them.

In the first example optimal is out to 65km and falloff out to 75km.



This. Always has been this way. No formulas needed.


Sorry but I've been playing this game for 8 years. We always added the 2 and my wiki link confirms it.

The Wiki has NEVER been accurate.

And I noticed not too long ago (at least an expansion or two) that the in-game turret range info is borked.

The turret formula hasn't (to my knowledge) changed in many years.
Optimal range is where (assuming tracking isn't a factor) you will always hit a target... falloff range is where the probability of scoring a hit goes down the further into it you go (i.e. you have a 50% chance of hitting a target 50% into falloff range... or something like that).

Gorn Arming wrote:
It's displayed differently now; the mechanics are the same. What's shown under "falloff" is the actual range at which you hit 1x falloff; i.e. your optimal is included.

Ahhh... so that's it. Thanks!

How did you Veterans start?
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-09-28 18:37:50 UTC
Ok, so for the math challenged, when I hover over my medium blasters in space (not in fitting window) and they show 4k optimal and 10k falloff, does that mean 14k total or 10k total? I always thought it would be 14. And for 2x falloff, would it be 16k total (4+6+6) or 24k total (4+10+10)? I always thought it would be 24.

Also, the phrasing for 'set auto reload to off' is confusing as hell. Sure wish the would make it a radio button option like the autopilot settings.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Gorn Arming
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-09-28 18:50:02 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Ok, so for the math challenged, when I hover over my medium blasters in space (not in fitting window) and they show 4k optimal and 10k falloff, does that mean 14k total or 10k total? I always thought it would be 14. And for 2x falloff, would it be 16k total (4+6+6) or 24k total (4+10+10)? I always thought it would be 24.

Also, the phrasing for 'set auto reload to off' is confusing as hell. Sure wish the would make it a radio button option like the autopilot settings.

4km optimal is self-explanatory (I hope).

10km falloff means you hit 1x falloff at 10km--meaning 4km of that is optimal, and 6km is what would have been displayed as "falloff" in previous expansions. Your maximum theoretical range (at which you'd be lucky to chip the target's paint) is 1x optimal + 2x falloff, or 16km in your case.

In reality it's almost never desirable to be firing much past 1x falloff, so the new way of displaying this is more convenient in most cases.

Again, none of the underlying mechanics or numbers have changed.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#20 - 2013-09-28 19:44:48 UTC
They just changed the wording to make it simpler for those of us (like myself) who are not so strong in math, and like it spelled out with nice big crayons. ;)

Optimal = full damage.
Falloff = viable reduced damage still hittable.
Past Falloff = usually wasting ammo.

You can simply mouse over and get the info you need now rather than adding it all up every time you have a different weapon system going on a different ship. (with the possible exception of missiles).

~Z

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
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