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I might not agree with that alternative suggestion, but I do think you're right about it being jarring. Short of a screen-bordering toolbar, there shouldn't be anything in the whole UI that is worthy of relocating other elements like that.

What's worse, this is a display of technical data, not gameplay data. The session timer is important but it is not a readout of spacey fun, it is a readout of something happening under the hood that doesn't exist to a capsuleer. I am really surprised that such a technical element suddenly won the right to take centerstage - a most prominent part of the screen - and visibly move other UI elements every. single. jump.

Just to be clear on that; every single jump and more the capsuleer is being reminded very loudly that he's on a computer, on the internet. In a room. Holding a mouse.


It needs to remain optional, that's a good start, but when it is on it should not celebrate itself or demand attention at all. The last thing that we should see are the words "SESSION TIMER." This just does not belong anywhere in a UI that is about spaceships. You could alter that label to connect it more to game world events, but now that only makes it obvious that it was demanding too much attention in the first place.

People who need it know what it is. We don't want "SESSION TIMER" stamped in the middle of our space spelunking. We don't want some technical bar pushing the nice new AP readout around. We only just got that upgraded and already it's getting trashed. The session timer indicator needs to be clear and in a handy location, but with a deliberate priority on discretion. The old timer lacked in clarity but it had the discretion right.

The session timer indicator:
· should not be noticeable by people who don't know what it is
· should be easily readable by people who do
· should not call deliberate attention to itself at all
· should not make explicit its technical separation from the capsuleer's world


There are plenty of nice ways this could be done without junking the AP readout or breaking the capsuleer's world view. It would be easy and fun to design.

This is in progress right now. The implementation you see was the first trial of making this thing more visible

Hmm, I agree. Not only the above, but some extra flashy UI never hurts.



Perhaps it could be made toggable?

It is: options > general options > top left panel > "show sesison change timer" check box.

If you mean toggled between display modes, that's another issue.

Oh, that's good to hear then. Makes my mini-thesis look a bit silly now.




The other timers you brought up - invulnerability & cloak - aren't session timers nor do they have progress bars. There is indeed a discussion that could thread itself off right here about those particular timers but they don't have the problems I was writing about. Here I'm just clarifying my thoughts on the session timer bar itself because you sound like you disagree, but I think we agree.

Yep the session timer's significance is all about the gameplay. I wasn't clear in that I was only referring to its technical display; the presentation of "Session Timer" that leaves the pilot to recall its real-life technical meaning every time they see it when they shouldn't be registering this at all, only thinking instead about its part in the fight they're currently in. A capsuleer should be thinking about sessions as much as he thinks about video cards.

I was only registering that complaint to then argue that something already putting a crack in the game's UI has no place unseating the real elements of it. That was the jarring part. So I wasn't just saying that the session timer labelled "Session Timer" is out of place (it is), I was saying that it's also the last thing that should be relocating the actual spaceship interface. I think/hope that's moot now thanks to CCP Anthelios.

With that out of the way, I did acknowledge that it needs to be clear and easily readable. So they can go two ways with this: a display with discretion, or a display that gives real acknowledgement of the situation in space. My post was pushing discretion but both can be done well.

The discretion approach is simple because it's easy to think up a clear, readable indicator that looks cool yet isn't in your face or explicit about its origins. The current TQ indicator only fails at clarity.

However it seems there is a lot of support for seeing a real indicator now. I'm part of that support, I just won't like it if the opportunity to bring this timer into the game is messed up with a lazy idea and reminders of "sessions."

Any timer display should only be about gameplay. We shouldn't be thinking of a session at all. This is hopefully what CCP are doing; making the session timer less prominent but the "various space-related timers" more so. This is hopefully how we are going to benefit from the new reduction to 20 seconds - no more thinking in sessions, ever. With the right presentation the toggle option isn't even needed; any timer is just a fitting part of the game. We should be thinking of the station master's rules, the stargate's traffic control, or the fleet ships syncing up comms across the stars, just like the cloak or invulnerability has us thinking about the game and nothing else. It's a little backwards that those timers aren't getting a UI presence but the network-focused session timer is, but I recognise why this is.


1. If it's going to be in our face, don't let it disconnect the player from space. Define it by the universe, not the network.
2. If it's not going to cater to the game situation, don't put it in our faces. Keep it clear and readable, sure, but discrete and non-explicit. If you don't want discrete, see 1.

As has been said by yourself and others, it's important and it relates to the gameplay. "Just keep it off" isn't giving the topic a lot of thought. Neither is missing how many times I said "clear" and "easily readable." It's very easy to produce a solution to all, that's why I suggested that the toggle option shouldn't even be needed anymore. Discrete doesn't mean hard to see, not at all.

If your only fear is that you might not see a timer's display, then you're fearing the wrong thing from what I'm saying. If you realise that what I'm saying doesn't rule out the sort of clarity you'd like, then you could consider that it is also worthwhile to keep the design unified, and easy to do regardless of which of the two approaches is taken.

They kind of seem to bounce between the two. Docking permission feels perfectly inline with the game, but good point about POS's. Meanwhile many things like finding a bush and donuts are tongue in cheek, but rare enough to be fun.

New circular timer is looking cleaner and less obtrusive. My first thoughts were that it was running backwards but as a countdown it works well. Nice one.

I liked the previous patch's session change timer more than this one tbh, but I have no idea what this "AP" you speak of is.

Either way, this one works, but I'd much like an integer countdown and not just a graphical one, like when you hover over it, but constant.

I like the session change timer and it is important, but I want an aggression timer bar I use that WAY more.