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A review of player giveaways with CCP and third party sites

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Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#401 - 2013-09-27 16:04:53 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
Sid Hudgens wrote:
Huge blatant favouritism is alright because it's not possible to get rid of every tiny piece of potentially perceived favouritism.
Did I get that right? Your argument that sending devs to a Somer-sponsored event could theoretically also be perceived as favouritism is of course correct, but I don't see a problem drawing a line at some point of severity and intent.

If you read the thread you might have noticed that I already mentioned that the Spotlight dev blog mentioning Somer was alright IMO because its intent was mostly informative and the influence on the sandbox probably rather limited (while most likely being more influential than your example). But I clearly see the current issue as much more severe beginning with the stated intent of supporting Somer and the added endorsing of the service and claims of its legitimacy.


I hope to god you're not suggesting these instances of favoritism be evaluated on a case-by-case basis!?

Who decides where this line is? Are you going to organize the committee on unacceptable favoritism?

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Dex Slim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#402 - 2013-09-27 16:06:25 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
Ok, you guys win. I guess if you can't beat 'em ... join 'em.

Fair is fair. We must level the playing field.

My organization is starting up a gambling/lottery site. As part of our grand opening we are hosting an EVE player event at Jack's Bar & Grill, down the road from my house.

Now I understand that CCP can't possibly send out several devs to each and every little player event like mine. That would be crazy. I do, however, have to protest CCP sending devs to the somer blink sponsored eve vegas event. The presence of CCP devs gives somer blink additional publicity and exposure that CCP is not providing for my event. This is giving somer blink an unfair advantage.

Also... something about sandboxes.


Was going to write a long answer to this but why bother? You just can't get through to some people it seems. You simply have no clue about profit/non-profit organizations and marketing tools like sponsoring.
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#403 - 2013-09-27 16:13:08 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
I hope to god you're not suggesting these instances of favoritism be evaluated on a case-by-case basis!?
Of course, how else should it be done? Life isn't easy, get over it! Big smile

Quote:
Who decides where this line is? Are you going to organize the committee on unacceptable favoritism?
As usual and following a time-honoured tradition it will be measured in the ancient unit "threadnaughts". If you find enough people agreeing with your "devs shouldn't go to Eve Vegas" argument then it might go places (except Vegas probably). As of right now the user count is ~1 if I didn't miscount.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#404 - 2013-09-27 16:15:31 UTC
Lykouleon wrote:
CCP shouldn't be allowing third-party sites to give away expensive in-game items or collectors items. CCP should not be exclusively using one third-party site unless they off similar sites the same opportunity.

[/thread]

You had it right with the first sentence, then you got lost again.
Memnon Shepard
The Occupation.
#405 - 2013-09-27 16:15:42 UTC
MyEveLotto wrote:
I'd rather they didn't pick corps to begin with. Why not just have CCP show up at an event, pick a random person from the crowd and give them a prize? Why not have CCP do their own lottery with them handling everything about it? Why not have CCP support EVE Vegas without giving trillions in revenue to one group of players?


Fair points, and I think this is the biggest issue to be resolved. If the end goal is to increase the motivation of player owned corps to participate in these live events, and there were known prizes that every corp in Eve could bid on in advance, wouldn't that even the playing field and still retain those valuable prizes, participation rewards, etc? I realize corps get the marketing advantage when they choose to sponsor stuff like this, but there must be a way to make the prize distribution equitable, even if it comes from CCP and is handed to a single corporation (corps bidding for rights to the items as a package, or individually, keeps coming to mind).

Is there any way to work that out or are all instances of CCP creating items in-game going to end in failure?
Taarakhan
Fhloston Enterprises
#406 - 2013-09-27 16:15:59 UTC
Dear CCP Overlords,

Forming the kinds of real-world partnerships that help create EvE events seems like a great business opportunity. Events like EvE Vegas and other mechanisms in the future help solidify EvE players into their own community in a real-world sense.

Thank you for making concessions to preserve game history, and please continue to find ways to promote our sandbox.

Best regards.
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#407 - 2013-09-27 16:16:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sid Hudgens
Dex Slim wrote:

Was going to write a long answer to this but why bother? You just can't get through to some people it seems. You simply have no clue about profit/non-profit organizations and marketing tools like sponsoring.




I know enough to stop bringing up non-profit organizations as they have **** all to do with any of this. I also know that CCP is free to make whatever marketing, sponsorship and promotion deals it want to promote its game. I know they will take player hysteria into account to a certain degree and I want them to know that I'm ok with it.

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#408 - 2013-09-27 16:16:21 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
If CCP wants to compensate somer blink for helping promote eve vegas how is that anybody's business? Would it be ok if it were done with RL money? What if that were then converted to plex and then isk?

If the rest of you ***** had an organization that ccp thought could help promote their game you might get the same deal. But you're all just a bunch of hysterical nerds ... so no dice.


Here's an idea. Do a community spotlight on the awesome things Blink is doing for the community with their own money they take off other players and scratch their back by introducing them to a wider audience. You know, like they already did in the past, getting them some extra traffic.

Not by vouching for their integrity and spawning prizes for them to sell, in addition to the above.
Abernie
Thoroughly Incompetent
#409 - 2013-09-27 16:18:38 UTC
Taarakhan wrote:

Thank you for making concessions to preserve game history, and please continue to find ways to promote our sandbox.

...by giving a single entity a trillion isk, because :sandbox:
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#410 - 2013-09-27 16:23:52 UTC
Oh ffs...

They were just trying to add a little fun to the eve vegas event and the twisted panties brigade has to come out and **** all over it.

Get a grip people.

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
MyEveLotto
Doomheim
#411 - 2013-09-27 16:26:12 UTC  |  Edited by: MyEveLotto
Memnon Shepard wrote:
Fair points, and I think this is the biggest issue to be resolved. If the end goal is to increase the motivation of player owned corps to participate in these live events, and there were known prizes that every corp in Eve could bid on in advance, wouldn't that even the playing field and still retain those valuable prizes, participation rewards, etc? I realize corps get the marketing advantage when they choose to sponsor stuff like this, but there must be a way to make the prize distribution equitable, even if it comes from CCP and is handed to a single corporation (corps bidding for rights to the items as a package, or individually, keeps coming to mind).

Is there any way to work that out or are all instances of CCP creating items in-game going to end in failure?


Even a system where corps could bid on prizes still grants advantages to those with higher revenue streams. That being said, it would certainly be a better way of doing it than "here's some free stuff, do with it as you please".

To be entirely honest, this whole thing likely wouldn't have been a problem if Somer had to pay for the items, or do something to obtain them aside from just being handed them. As a competitor, I certainly wouldn't have a leg to stand on or even reason to be annoyed if as part of their sponsorship for the event they were simply granted the option to purchase a unique ship for an estimated appropriate price, as long as that same sponsorship option was offered to anyone. Let's say they had paid 100b for an all-expense paid trip to Fanfest; people likely wouldn't be as up-in-arms as they are since they were just handed multiple prizes which are effectively priceless. At least in that way they had to invest some money into it instead of just getting free ISK.

All instances of CCP creating items in-game and simply giving them to someone to do with as they please will end in failure. They can certainly find better ways of handling it, though. Something like sponsorship packages for events could potentially work. Pay 200b, get your corp logo plastered everywhere at EVE Vegas, get a unique ship to do with as you please, and CCP mentions your site as an awesome place to go.

myEVElotto.com - The New Public Lottery Site
T'kimat
Inner Geek
#412 - 2013-09-27 16:27:01 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
Oh ffs...

They were just trying to add a little fun to the eve vegas event and the twisted panties brigade has to come out and **** all over it.

Get a grip people.


Internet spaceships are srs bsns
Mycool Jahksn
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#413 - 2013-09-27 16:27:24 UTC
My god you people are ********. It's a ******* game! Why have certain shipmodels when they don't physically exist anymore?

I for one thought the Gold Magnate would be a cool thing to give out since everyone had a chance to get it.

Ultra facepalm.

My interests include but are not limited to throwing rocks at bee hives.

There are more stars in the universe than all of the grains of sand on earth.
MyEveLotto
Doomheim
#414 - 2013-09-27 16:29:20 UTC
Mycool Jahksn wrote:
My god you people are ********. It's a ******* game! Why have certain shipmodels when they don't physically exist anymore?

I for one thought the Gold Magnate would be a cool thing to give out since everyone had a chance to get it.

Ultra facepalm.


I'm sure you'll find that right now people aren't concerned about what ship it is, but instead the blatant favoritism being shown by CCP toward one particular player group.

Keep up with the rage, man. Don't get left behind.

myEVElotto.com - The New Public Lottery Site
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#415 - 2013-09-27 16:30:37 UTC
Abernie wrote:
Taarakhan wrote:

Thank you for making concessions to preserve game history, and please continue to find ways to promote our sandbox.

...by giving a single entity a trillion isk, because :sandbox:


Wait they might do something horrible with that isk ... like ... like ... sponsor another tournament! This must be stopped!

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Dex Slim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#416 - 2013-09-27 16:31:53 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
Dex Slim wrote:

Was going to write a long answer to this but why bother? You just can't get through to some people it seems. You simply have no clue about profit/non-profit organizations and marketing tools like sponsoring.




I know enough to stop bringing up non-profit organizations as they have **** all to do with any of this. I also know that CCP is free to make whatever marketing, sponsorship and promotion deals it want to promote its game. I know they will take player hysteria into account to a certain degree and I want them to know that I'm ok with it.


Really? All your posts here suggests otherwise. Especially your EVE Vegas example. Let me enlighten you.

The fans organizing EVE Vegas gain nothing, ticket money will go 100% to the event. As such they are a non-profit organization and CCP can rightly choose to endorse them however they wish.

SOMER blink is sponsoring EVE Vegas tournaments with in game currency. That's simple marketing, they expect to get something in exchange. But guess what? Everyone can sponsor an ingame event with ingame cash if they want to, even you. Just provide some 50b for tournament prizes. It's fair game.

Just giving one trillion in ISK to SOMER is not fair game. See the difference?
Mycool Jahksn
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#417 - 2013-09-27 16:32:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mycool Jahksn
MyEveLotto wrote:
Mycool Jahksn wrote:
My god you people are ********. It's a ******* game! Why have certain shipmodels when they don't physically exist anymore?

I for one thought the Gold Magnate would be a cool thing to give out since everyone had a chance to get it.

Ultra facepalm.


I'm sure you'll find that right now people aren't concerned about what ship it is, but instead the blatant favoritism being shown by CCP toward one particular player group.

Keep up with the rage, man. Don't get left behind.


Who the F-CK cares if SOMER BLINK makes a few mil? They've greatly contributed to the community and people use their services all the time.

It's the only legit EVE gamling site that I know of.

You're all a bunch of welfare tards jealous of the success that others make for themselves through hard work.

Once again the negative, conservative, backwards thinking dumb EVE community have stopped something that could have ended up being something awesome, just like you did with walking in stations and such.

Here's a good link for you: http://www.thechangeblog.com/afraid-of-change/

Fear of change is a modern sickness y'know.

My interests include but are not limited to throwing rocks at bee hives.

There are more stars in the universe than all of the grains of sand on earth.
Memnon Shepard
The Occupation.
#418 - 2013-09-27 16:33:46 UTC
MyEveLotto wrote:
All instances of CCP creating items in-game and simply giving them to someone to do with as they please will end in failure. They can certainly find better ways of handling it, though. Something like sponsorship packages for events could potentially work. Pay 200b, get your corp logo plastered everywhere at EVE Vegas, get a unique ship to do with as you please, and CCP mentions your site as an awesome place to go.


I think this is sort of what I'm hoping the system can evolve into. I totally agree and can clearly see the issue with dumping items on a corp for free, but I'd like to keep the introduction of unique items into the game alive. The proceeds could be spent entirely on a pool for the tournament, giving greater incentive for corps to turn out and participate. I just don't think the whole idea of sponsorship should be thrown away because the first attempt backfired.
Steijn
Quay Industries
#419 - 2013-09-27 16:34:22 UTC
Mycool Jahksn wrote:
MyEveLotto wrote:
Mycool Jahksn wrote:
My god you people are ********. It's a ******* game! Why have certain shipmodels when they don't physically exist anymore?

I for one thought the Gold Magnate would be a cool thing to give out since everyone had a chance to get it.

Ultra facepalm.


I'm sure you'll find that right now people aren't concerned about what ship it is, but instead the blatant favoritism being shown by CCP toward one particular player group.

Keep up with the rage, man. Don't get left behind.


Who the F-CK cares if SOMER BLINK makes a few mil? They've greatly contributed to the community and people use their services all the time.

It's the only legit EVE gamling site that I know of.

You're all a bunch of welfare tards jealous of the success that others make for themselves through hard work.


Goons have contributed more to the community, lets give them the next set of free limited edition content to do as they please with.
Abernie
Thoroughly Incompetent
#420 - 2013-09-27 16:40:06 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
Abernie wrote:
Taarakhan wrote:

Thank you for making concessions to preserve game history, and please continue to find ways to promote our sandbox.

...by giving a single entity a trillion isk, because :sandbox:


Wait they might do something horrible with that isk ... like ... like ... sponsor another tournament! This must be stopped!

So CCP is paying somer isk so somer can sponsor more tournaments with isk..? Somer doesn't sponsor tournaments out of good will just like Intel doesn't sponsor e-sports for good will. It's called marketing. Look it up. It's real hip with the kids these days.

And to problem would still be that it's more traffic to somer which directly nets them extra isk and $$$ for traffic.