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Is the CSM now a lame duck?

First post
Author
Josef Djugashvilis
#1 - 2013-09-27 09:11:41 UTC
The CSM seem not to have been consulted by CCP about the proposal to allow Somer Blink to manage the rare ship lottery.

An accidental oversight by CCP, or do they just not take the CSM seriously?

This is not a signature.

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-09-27 09:14:07 UTC
Anytime the Marketing Department get a "brilliant" idea, they never consult the CSM.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Prince Kobol
#3 - 2013-09-27 09:23:35 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
The CSM seem not to have been consulted by CCP about the proposal to allow Somer Blink to manage the rare ship lottery.

An accidental oversight by CCP, or do they just not take the CSM seriously?



I didn't realise CCP had to consult with the CSM for every single decision they make.

Red Templar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-09-27 09:24:11 UTC
Well apparently they did it in order to "investigate" what kind of reaction this thing will get.

One can of course argue that why you couldn't investigate, think and consult before actually doing anything? Well that wouldn't be dumb or provocative, would it? And that was the whole point of this thing.

[b]For Love. For Peace. For Honor.

For None of the Above.

For Pony![/b]

Tiffenay
Synchrodyne Holding
#5 - 2013-09-27 09:43:17 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
The CSM seem not to have been consulted by CCP about the proposal to allow Somer Blink to manage the rare ship lottery.

An accidental oversight by CCP, or do they just not take the CSM seriously?



I didn't realise CCP had to consult with the CSM for every single decision they make.



They certainly don't, but the CSM's sole purpose to exist is to provide the kind of feedback that would have prevented today's outrage. The CSM is a resource to CCP to avoid situations like this.

Why CCP doesn't use them properly is anyone's guess.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#6 - 2013-09-27 09:49:12 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
An accidental oversight by CCP, or do they just not take the CSM seriously?


False dichotomy is false.

There are many more explanations, mostly revolving around the CCP staff involved not having their fingers on the pulse when it comes to understanding the value of scarcity, the psychology of collectors, or the need to maintain trust in the issue of unique versus limited-run versus timed limited offers.

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2013-09-27 09:51:48 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
The CSM seem not to have been consulted by CCP about the proposal to allow Somer Blink to manage the rare ship lottery.

An accidental oversight by CCP, or do they just not take the CSM seriously?



I didn't realise CCP had to consult with the CSM for every single decision they make.




They don't.

CCP is divided up into departments and teams. Some choose to interact very closely with the CSM, some occasionally ask us for advice, some just ask for comment on the exact communication they're planning for the decision already made, and still others don't talk to the CSM at all.

I leave it as an exercise for the interested student as to which set of teams make more hilarious public faceplants.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#8 - 2013-09-27 09:56:07 UTC
What do you mean by "now" ;)

The fact that they didn't consult the body of player representatives that were formed in part as a result of devs spawning items for a particular player group about the the decision to spawn items for a particular player group says it all.

CCP don't give a flying toss anymore. Screw the sandbox, screw fairness and balance, lets rush into all kinds of horribly thought out things for an attempt at grabbing some short term publicity.

They'll succeed, after a fashion. They'll get plenty of publicity - albeit the same kind of publicity they got after T20 handed out BPOs, and after the "Greed is good" debacle with $60 virtual pants.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2013-09-27 10:05:36 UTC
It is a categorical error to treat "CCP" as a single unit of homegenous views and procedures.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Jove Death
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-09-27 10:09:00 UTC
may aswell drop a can with 50 bpos in it

OH... wait that was a done a few years ago Blink

Quoting "you will die" in EvE is fail Chars dont die in EvE. Unless you have a heart attack eek.

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-09-27 10:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Malcanis wrote:
It is a categorical error to treat "CCP" as a single unit of homegenous views and procedures.

Most people don't seem to be smart enough to distinguish between the actions of a group
and the actions of a single individual of a group.

"All black people are drug dealers."
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#12 - 2013-09-27 12:30:47 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It is a categorical error to treat "CCP" as a single unit of homegenous views and procedures.

Most people don't seem to be smart enough to distinguish between the actions of a group
and the actions of a single individual of a group.

"All black people are drug dealers."


Or even sub-groups.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-09-27 12:39:37 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It is a categorical error to treat "CCP" as a single unit of homegenous views and procedures.

Most people don't seem to be smart enough to distinguish between the actions of a group
and the actions of a single individual of a group.

"All black people are drug dealers."


I think it's safe to say all marketing people are immoral assholes that need to look to bill hicks for life changing advice.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#14 - 2013-09-27 12:45:12 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It is a categorical error to treat "CCP" as a single unit of homegenous views and procedures.

Most people don't seem to be smart enough to distinguish between the actions of a group
and the actions of a single individual of a group.

"All black people are drug dealers."


I think it's safe to say all marketing people are immoral assholes that need to look to bill hicks for life changing advice.



Yes, because we all have the ability to find out the name of every new product and company which comes to market, and the time to trawl through industry sites and publications to find the new cool company we want to support.

Totally useless, all marketing.
Josef Djugashvilis
#15 - 2013-09-27 12:54:43 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
The CSM seem not to have been consulted by CCP about the proposal to allow Somer Blink to manage the rare ship lottery.

An accidental oversight by CCP, or do they just not take the CSM seriously?



I didn't realise CCP had to consult with the CSM for every single decision they make.



Well, you do now.

This is not a signature.

Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#16 - 2013-09-27 12:55:46 UTC
Another sign of rushed decision-making is the fact that the relative popularity and trustworthiness of SOMER Blink was not taken into account, or probably even assessed. If CCP had polled pilots about what they thought about S'Blink, it would be somewhere between lukewarm and dishwater. It's not about how trustworthy S'Blink really is - it's about how trustworthy pilots think they are.

Not the kind of group to announce an exciting alliance with. It would be like CCP rolling out a dazzling, sparkling marketing partnership with the Sansha Nation - it would go over like a fart in church.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#17 - 2013-09-27 13:03:48 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:
it's about how trustworthy pilots think they are.


If you read the vocal minority rabble on these forums, SOMERblink sacrifices little puppies to Satan, and then reads their entrails for the best way to scam players, making them highly suspect. If you actually pay attention to their website, you'll see that thousands more per day give not one **** about shovelling their isk willingly into SOMER's wallet to have fun gambling, for the good or ill of their personal fortune.

Overall, I don't believe that the majority of players distrust them, and I do believe that most who play will be tripping over themselves to win these ships.
Luis Graca
#18 - 2013-09-27 13:30:50 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:




They don't.

CCP is divided up into departments and teams. Some choose to interact very closely with the CSM, some occasionally ask us for advice, some just ask for comment on the exact communication they're planning for the decision already made, and still others don't talk to the CSM at all.

I leave it as an exercise for the interested student as to which set of teams make more hilarious public faceplants.



You're totally wright the thing that worries me is that it's was the community manager that announces it What?

Of all the groups it had to be them the ones that should know they clients better then no one
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#19 - 2013-09-27 13:36:13 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Overall, I don't believe that the majority of players distrust them, and I do believe that most who play will be tripping over themselves to win these ships.

You and I disagree about S'Blink's trust level, and I'm basing that on the S'Blink cheerleading thread, which was five pages long (versus the anti-S'Blink thread with 32 pages), and more than half of the commentators in the cheerleading thread were SOMER Blink detractors.

I'll admit that the 32-page thread was not all detractors - there were some posters who are perhaps fine with SOMER Blink, but have a basic disapproval with CCP's decision on one of more than a few alternative levels. Meet me in the middle and agree with me that SOMER Blink is doubtless, at least, regarded as controversial. Controversial is not what CCP needs, given their past predilection for serially tripping over their bellbottoms.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#20 - 2013-09-27 13:49:59 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Overall, I don't believe that the majority of players distrust them, and I do believe that most who play will be tripping over themselves to win these ships.

You and I disagree about S'Blink's trust level, and I'm basing that on the S'Blink cheerleading thread, which was five pages long (versus the anti-S'Blink thread with 32 pages), and more than half of the commentators in the cheerleading thread were SOMER Blink detractors.

I'll admit that the 32-page thread was not all detractors - there were some posters who are perhaps fine with SOMER Blink, but have a basic disapproval with CCP's decision on one of more than a few alternative levels. Meet me in the middle and agree with me that SOMER Blink is doubtless, at least, regarded as controversial. Controversial is not what CCP needs, given their past predilection for serially tripping over their bellbottoms.



We disagree because you're under the illusion that these forums represent a majority of the average players; like all such gaming forums, they do not. We are the vocal minority who take a more-than-active interest in the game. The guy who logs in for an hour or two a night to burn some asteroids or run some missions, and is blinking away in the IGB the whole time doesn't generally read or participate in these forums, nor does he particularly distrust SOMERblink. To these people, it's fun gambling, and they don't care if they're being scammed or not. I needn't meet you in the middle, because there is no controversy; fools and their money are soon parted, be it by an actual malevolent scam, or an up-and-up gambling experience. Either way, they're going to shovel their money into it.

The ultimate result of this is that people, many of them having never blinked before, will be tripping over themselves to play blink when the time comes, and it will be a slam dunk for CCP's marketing department. By then the eight or ten people who are actually going to quit EVE forever over this will have done so, and the rest of us will be catfighting over whatever the new bellyache is for that week.
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