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EVE Online: Rubicon Discussion

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#101 - 2013-09-26 22:25:05 UTC
This looks interesting.

I wonder if the POCOs will be worth fighting over in highsec or if (as I expect) they'll just be a small passive income stream to anyone that can be bothered setting them up, like R&D agents are.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#102 - 2013-09-26 22:27:19 UTC
Henriette Malia Alette wrote:
A few lines from the Rubicon page:

Imagine capsuleer corporations, rising in power and capabilities, flying their own colors and using their might to build up whole areas of space.


Imagine what could happen if capsuleers truly mastered the science of space travel itself, and were no longer bound to the known universe.


Yet the capsuleers, the immortal pilots of EVE's most powerful spaceships, are becoming a stronger and stronger force of their own. They will not settle with what has been served to them thus far. EVE Online: Rubicon is the first step beyond a point of no return, on a dangerous path to ascension with consequences that neither capsuleers nor players can predict.


Can u spell "Null Sec". That is what rubicon is the first step towards... u are turning High Sec - into Low and Null Sec - simply put.

Lets take it bit for bit:
Capsuleer Corporations "Rising in power ? - u mean, when the Null sec alliances - with theyre iskies and ships, etc starts taking over High sec.. Bcause - u dont seriously gonna try sell that the little corporation of 20-50 ppl, whom tries to actually build theyre own little space, will be allowed to do that without consulting/asking the larger alliances first do u ?
" Imagine disrupting what someone else built up, through cunning or force. " - yeah.. 10 Capitals will fix any of those issues.

"space travel itself, " - You mean Black Ops's and Bridges ? - why not just write that.. its in NS already.. or are you really gonna try tell us that its gonna be something completly new, and the huge alliances in NS arent gonna control them ? - right.. bcause that is soo gonna happen..

"are becoming a stronger and stronger force of their own. They will not settle with what has been served to them thus far." And we are back to the NS part... alliances already claimed NS.. they want more land, ure giving them it... as for newbie friendly.. can you say "goodbye new players" ? - bcause that is what will happen, once this is done...

Let me tell u what i think will happen...
NS items, like sov, bridges etc will start appear in HS instead of Gates: Through live events, we will see one empire after another either fall, or becoming increasingly limited in size - severly turning space from NPC controlled HS to player controlled NS: (which will NOT benifit anyone besides the NS Alliances)... eventually, HS will be small islands, very small, camped, and surrounded by pirates... we will see that concord, the protector of the newbie "in live events" or whatever other means u can think off, suddenly "vanishes", most places.. they might even be killed off in a live event "sorry ppl, Concord is bad.. they need to go..." - effectivly turning all that we know and love as HS into a NS haven for the Alliances that already control and owns so much - and we the casual - the HS players, will be left at the mercy of whatever mittens, and his "fellow" alliance bosses feels space should be run like.. we already seen how that works in NS - now its coming to HS aswell...

Seriously.. if u really are tired of us players, that seeks the PVE, a more relaxing or different approach then PVP of any sort - why not simply make that statement in a nice CCP blog, and be done with it... and we can take our hats and go..

Some of the stuff coming in Rubicon - is nice.. but once u start reading between the lines - if u cant see that this is a path leading to turning all of EVE into NS.. well..


I tried to read this, But I don't speak Tinfoil, someone translate for me.
Femina Debic
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#103 - 2013-09-26 22:27:53 UTC
I too get the feeling that this seems like the start of a move to take the relative pve area of Hi Sec and start turning it into a much more pvp area ala NS LS. As the players begin to own more and more of the game and particularly the big alliances.

If that is so I am afraid of Eve's base of new players shrinking, due to the fact that Pve may become a thing of the past. Many of those initial carebear new comers go on to investigate null, lo and wh pvp playing and enjoy the game in that way. But if they find themselves totally stifled from day one in the game,, to a method of play they may at first reject, perhaps they will never get to the point where they even try the Pvp game and leave because of the losses.

If Eve does continue to take this line, and doesn't take account of upcoming games that are at present in the development stage, they may be giving away new players to these upcoming games. One in particular sticks in my mind, and it is one that Eve has a lot of history with, is Elite: Dangerous which starts beta next spring.

I have for a long time had a love hate relationship with Eve but if it goes the way that I see it indicating from this expansion on, I may just feel that my internet space ship adventure may be served in a different game.

If my fears are realised with the direction Eve looks like it is heading to I shall be sorry to have lost this game that at this time has something for all.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#104 - 2013-09-26 22:28:22 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Vald Tegor wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:

anyone will be able to attack those highsec poco's .. without concord intervention

if you think the tax rates are too high .. LAUNCH YOUR **** DIRECTLY INTO SPACE and pay no tax, your not forced to use the orbiting POCO .... it's not rocket science

Please enlighten us on your magical ways of making P4's without the use of a POCO

Also citation needed on Concord and POCO's, I understood that to be related to depots not POCOs.



I can confirm that statement from CCP Fozzie today on EVE TV @ 2000 UTC announcement for Rubicon.

He said very clearly and unambiguously that POCO's will NOT be protected by Concord (paraphrasing)

I'm also paraphrasing and understood "no concord involvement, at most you will get a suspect flag" to be specifically referring to the four new personal anchorable modules.

Therefore, citation needed.

Required wardec fees for POCO's would do interesting things as a gold sink and the fluctuating cost of that would have interesting impact on the balance of control. But without a required wardec it would be a constant state of "welp, can't do my PI today the POCO got randomly reinforced again".
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#105 - 2013-09-26 22:29:10 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:

He'll tell you no, because it's a hollow threat that's been used since 2003; and because of the fact he'll resubscribe once a few expancsions come through and he can actually then see what CCP is doing (that he could not perceive in advance)

I'm sure his thread is sincerer and he will gladly donate his wallet and assets to me to reinforce his statement.
Rengerel en Distel
#106 - 2013-09-26 22:34:02 UTC
Vald Tegor wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Vald Tegor wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:

anyone will be able to attack those highsec poco's .. without concord intervention

if you think the tax rates are too high .. LAUNCH YOUR **** DIRECTLY INTO SPACE and pay no tax, your not forced to use the orbiting POCO .... it's not rocket science

Please enlighten us on your magical ways of making P4's without the use of a POCO

Also citation needed on Concord and POCO's, I understood that to be related to depots not POCOs.



I can confirm that statement from CCP Fozzie today on EVE TV @ 2000 UTC announcement for Rubicon.

He said very clearly and unambiguously that POCO's will NOT be protected by Concord (paraphrasing)

I'm also paraphrasing and understood "no concord involvement, at most you will get a suspect flag" to be specifically referring to the four new personal anchorable modules.

Therefore, citation needed.

Required wardec fees for POCO's would do interesting things as a gold sink and the fluctuating cost of that would have interesting impact on the balance of control. But without a required wardec it would be a constant state of "welp, can't do my PI today the POCO got randomly reinforced again".


I'd guess he meant no concord taking out the npc custom offices, but normal wardecs would be necessary to take out POCOs.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#107 - 2013-09-26 22:34:31 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:

Refitting during combat??

I expect it will work just like the fleet hangar and ship maintenance bay on a Carrier/Orca, so yes.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#108 - 2013-09-26 22:36:59 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:

I'd guess he meant no concord taking out the npc custom offices, but normal wardecs would be necessary to take out POCOs.

That sounds far more plausible
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#109 - 2013-09-26 22:40:43 UTC
Well, I am somewhat surprised in the manner that the cartels attacked high sec, but the thrust of Rubicon remains the same: Kill high sec. Allowing the null sec cartels to obliterate all high sec POCO's gives them far more territory to control. Next step, allow the cartels to take over control of high sec stations with the summer release.

And of course, there is still lots of time for CCP to drop the bomb on high sec industry before Nov 19th.

Oh, and the cartels must be adoring the new cyno jammer. First supercap fleet in wins. Counter drops is a thing of the past.
BL and PL must be hating Fozzie.

And nice to see that after the first set of changes the masses screamed about re: the Marauder class, CCP has finalized the changes, ignoring the massive amount of ongoing conversation. Incursion runners that used Marauders are utterly screwed. Of course, the cartels are giggling over that.

Now, I have to say, the EAF changes will be awesome. Happy I trained EAF V and my Sentinel will be a blast.

The 4 new deployable modules, don't have a clue how that will fall out.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#110 - 2013-09-26 22:41:54 UTC
Vald Tegor wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:

Refitting during combat??

I expect it will work just like the fleet hangar and ship maintenance bay on a Carrier/Orca, so yes.


But maybe it won't be harder to kill it than Carrier/Orca? :)

Invalid signature format
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#111 - 2013-09-26 22:44:08 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Oh, and the cartels must be adoring the new cyno jammer. First supercap fleet in wins. Counter drops is a thing of the past.
BL and PL must be hating Fozzie.


Covert cyno. Just saying.

Invalid signature format
blue dehazon
Stonegard Arrows
#112 - 2013-09-26 22:51:31 UTC
Femina Debic wrote:
I too get the feeling that this seems like the start of a move to take the relative pve area of Hi Sec and start turning it into a much more pvp area ala NS LS. As the players begin to own more and more of the game and particularly the big alliances.

If that is so I am afraid of Eve's base of new players shrinking, due to the fact that Pve may become a thing of the past. Many of those initial carebear new comers go on to investigate null, lo and wh pvp playing and enjoy the game in that way. But if they find themselves totally stifled from day one in the game,, to a method of play they may at first reject, perhaps they will never get to the point where they even try the Pvp game and leave because of the losses.

If Eve does continue to take this line, and doesn't take account of upcoming games that are at present in the development stage, they may be giving away new players to these upcoming games. One in particular sticks in my mind, and it is one that Eve has a lot of history with, is Elite: Dangerous which starts beta next spring.

I have for a long time had a love hate relationship with Eve but if it goes the way that I see it indicating from this expansion on, I may just feel that my internet space ship adventure may be served in a different game.

If my fears are realised with the direction Eve looks like it is heading to I shall be sorry to have lost this game that at this time has something for all.
i agre,this game turning more and more in to a playground for the large alliances and les and les a game for smal corp or singel player,if the next expancion gose the same way then am don whid this game.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#113 - 2013-09-26 22:51:47 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Vald Tegor wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:

Refitting during combat??

I expect it will work just like the fleet hangar and ship maintenance bay on a Carrier/Orca, so yes.


But maybe it won't be harder to kill it than Carrier/Orca? :)

Carriers and Orcas don't have reinforce timers. Though the amount of damage to reinforce it might be very low to prevent in combat use. But shooting it also gives the attacker a suspect timer, turning it into a bait for getting your friends in on the kill.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#114 - 2013-09-26 22:53:49 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Oh, and the cartels must be adoring the new cyno jammer. First supercap fleet in wins. Counter drops is a thing of the past.
BL and PL must be hating Fozzie.

Because we already know it anchors and onlines instantly and has the EHP of a station, right?
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#115 - 2013-09-26 22:56:46 UTC
blue dehazon wrote:
i agre,this game turning more and more in to a playground for the large alliances and les and les a game for smal corp or singel player,if the next expancion gose the same way then am don whid this game.

Actually, this looks like something for smaller high-sec bound corps to get into as they grow, before they can handle defending such assets in low sec vs capital/supercap fleets.

Or were you expecting to hold a POCO as a corp with three players and half a dozen alts?
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2013-09-26 22:58:20 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
but the thrust of Rubicon remains the same: Kill high sec.


It sort of gives you a tingle doesn't it? I know I'm excited.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Oh, and the cartels must be adoring the new cyno jammer. First supercap fleet in wins. Counter drops is a thing of the past.
BL and PL must be hating Fozzie.


Personally I can't decide if I'm more excited about highsec POCOs or the portable cyno jammer. Either way it's going to be good times.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2013-09-26 23:02:30 UTC
So when are you going to address really important issues like:
- PvE
- production
- sov warfare
- force projection
- POSes
Kyle Maltese
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2013-09-26 23:03:32 UTC
A lot of you are missing quite a few things about the new mechanics:

POCOs are going to be fought over all the time, and they don't need a war dec. In HIGH sec. Also, no supers to tip the scales to one side or the other too much.

This is going to make highsec a lot more exiting while giving new players a chance to watch the battles in relative safety; they don't need to journey to lowsec to get a good show. And if they like what they see, they can even join in on the fight. It's going to grow a lot more mercenary corps; ones to attack the POCOs and ones to defend them on behalf of the owning corps.

The syphon structures give people a reason to watch their bases. Imagine hiring out your corp to do fly-bys of a slew of POSes in an area to make sure that nobody is stealing resources from your employer. Guard duty, essentially. It makes money for the merc corp, and makes sure the hiring corp doesn't loose the resources they're trying to extract.

Depots will allow a small team of people to operate behind enemy lines much easier; especially if the bases are able to be packed up and moved quickly. They mentioned the big four, but they also mentioned stuff that falls under those; "sub-modules" if I remember right. Perhaps defensive structures? Turrets and EWAR maybe?

it also opens up a big possibility for wormhole explorers; the ability to carry your base with you from wormhole to wormhole. It makes my plan of traveling through wormhole space in a BS, Voyager style, much easier when I don't need to stop in K-space and refit constantly.

The new missiles are going to be a great addition. Imagine a small fleet of BSes taking on a larger frigate fleet. No more are Battleships only really viable in a fleet; FW is going to be seeing them a lot more now that they can defend themselves with more than just drones.


You guys are thinking too linear about this. With every expansion, we've proven that we can take tools they've given us and use them in novel and unexpected ways. This expansion will be no different.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#119 - 2013-09-26 23:04:38 UTC
Alexander the Great wrote:
So when are you going to address really important issues like:
- PvE
- production
- sov warfare
- force projection
- POSes


In Eve Online: Himalayas

Invalid signature format
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2013-09-26 23:06:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Berluth Luthian
Two thoughts:

Supply Depots in FW complexes/deadspace? I wonder how that might work? Could you store ships in them? When you are fitting, where does your ship go? What about NPCs not doing anything? Could faction navy npcs be avoided in highsec by jumping inside them?

Also, the siphons, did they say they only work on starbases, or maybe could they be used on POCOs?

Also with the rapid heavy missile launchers, target painters should be a big deal. But also may push for more pressure for a missile tracking disruptor.