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Skills that don't make sense
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Jumfat Kohlah
Dark Sacred Night
#1 - 2013-09-25 10:06:19 UTC
There is one group in particular that makes no sense to me and as it affects mining, that will affect the majority of miners.

The skills relate to the insertion of t2 crystals.

Under the newly renamed category of "Resource Processing" getting lvl4 in Veldspar processing allows the insertion of the t2 crystal - however the entire grouping is associated to processing and refining!

T2 crystals have nothing to do with that - why is it necessary to reach level 4 to fit them? Wouldn't it be better if the crystal use could be associated more with the ship (lvl 5 in mining barge) or in the category of Gunnery ( as that is essentially what they are) under the heading of "Mining Laser upgrade" ?

The other annoyances are the skills that affect capacitor of the module rather than the performance of the module. A good example is target painting and weapon disruption. Both affect capacitor usage and not the modules performance.

Can some time be set aside to address these (after sorting out all the other bugs oc)
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#2 - 2013-09-25 10:56:04 UTC
Yup, it truly is a game wrecker, ain't it ? Not.

The Ore Processing skills are ranked for training time length depending upon the classification of the ore involved (High, Low, or Null). And for reason. No way should someone be able to fit T2 Arkonor just for hitting level 5 on their Barge.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Random Woman
Very Professional Corporation
#3 - 2013-09-25 11:06:21 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Yup, it truly is a game wrecker, ain't it ? Not.

The Ore Processing skills are ranked for training time length depending upon the classification of the ore involved (High, Low, or Null). And for reason. No way should someone be able to fit T2 Arkonor just for hitting level 5 on their Barge.



What you write makes no sense either. Hitting 5 on the barge takes probably longer than training the 3 stupid crystals up you want to mine.

Anyways it should be coherent between the lasers that destroy things that destroy rocks and the lasers that destroy rocks. The progression through the prosessing skills is strange, thats what OP wanted to express. His solution for this debacle makes not much sense either, but then he's in good company here i guess.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#4 - 2013-09-25 11:21:48 UTC
Jumfat Kohlah wrote:
T2 crystals have nothing to do with that - why is it necessary to reach level 4 to fit them? Wouldn't it be better if the crystal use could be associated more with the ship (lvl 5 in mining barge) or in the category of Gunnery ( as that is essentially what they are) under the heading of "Mining Laser upgrade" ?
I suggest you check out the training times for medium turret-based weaponry.
They need specialisations that only affect T2 turrets, and you need small specs before medium and large.
I don't think you want to look too much towards gunnery as examples for how to skill for T2 "ammo".

At the same time, you could easily justify the reprocessing skills for T2 mining crystals. Just as Astrogeology would technically be a science, here the application is mining asteroids. Processing those asteroids efficiently is a skill by its own, but the knowledge you gain from those (technically engineering?) processes can also be applied to improve your ability to harvest those particular asteroids.
It doesn't make perfect sense, but I think it's good enough.

Quote:
The other annoyances are the skills that affect capacitor of the module rather than the performance of the module. A good example is target painting and weapon disruption. Both affect capacitor usage and not the modules performance.
By far most E-War works this way, and have meta-skills to improve ability.
Check out:
Weapon Disruption (Core) -> Turret Destabilisation (meta).
Sensor Linking (Core) -> Signal Suppression (meta).
Electronic Warfare (Core) -> Frequency "something" (meta).

I can't remember the rest, but apart from jamming (Which IIRC doesn't have an associated meta skill) they all work such that enabling the various mods are tied to a skill that reduces cap use, and higher skill levels in the core skill lets you train a support / meta skill to the modules that improves on your efficiency.
I think that works very fine, and see no reason to change it.

I think the mining part could potentially be explained better but I see no actual reason to introduce T2 mining crystal specialisations when you already have skills that many (Granted, not all alts) miners will want to have at some point anyway, namely refining efficiency.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#5 - 2013-09-25 11:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Random Woman wrote:


What you write makes no sense either. Hitting 5 on the barge takes probably longer than training the 3 stupid crystals up you



If it doesn't make sense to you then English must not be your first language. And you say "PROBABLY" !

You don't even have a clue! After 3 1/2 years, I do.

Fail Troll -1

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Rengerel en Distel
#6 - 2013-09-25 12:18:01 UTC
Don't think of it as needing the processing skill to 4 to use the crystals, think of it as a processing skill that has the added bonus of allowing you to use T2 crystals to mine. Perhaps you'd rather they added another complete set of skills to skill up to allow for the T2 crystals?

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-09-25 12:53:11 UTC
Jumfat Kohlah wrote:
after sorting out all the other bugs oc
Lol

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-09-25 12:57:40 UTC
Does Jury Rigging V and Multitasking past III still do absolutely nothing? I think they should fix these first.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#9 - 2013-09-25 14:32:26 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Does Jury Rigging V and Multitasking past III still do absolutely nothing? I think they should fix these first.


JR V is as it looks useless, should be something for titans or outposts i.m.h.o. Multitasking is renamed to 'advanced target management', in combination with 'auto targets' ( +3 bonus to ship's max targets ) it may be useful for some to train past III.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#10 - 2013-09-25 14:43:38 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
.................Multitasking past III still do absolutely nothing?



Welp, I wouldn't expect you to have actually used a Noctis to discover otherwise.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
HardRockLife
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
#11 - 2013-09-25 18:49:04 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Does Jury Rigging V and Multitasking past III still do absolutely nothing? I think they should fix these first.


JR V is as it looks useless, should be something for titans or outposts i.m.h.o. Multitasking is renamed to 'advanced target management', in combination with 'auto targets' ( +3 bonus to ship's max targets ) it may be useful for some to train past III.

JR 5 gives you the ability to build tech 3s.
A rather crucial bit to leet pvp
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
#12 - 2013-09-25 19:51:45 UTC
God, I thought if you were going to complain about any useless skills it would have been the corporation management ones, that you can basically bypass entirely and run an alliance, from a corp with thousands of members with a character with Corp Managment 1.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2013-09-25 22:06:16 UTC
The only useless skills I know of, aside from the rare collectibles ones:

* Industrial Construction IV and V

* Battleship Construction V

These skills are not required by any BPO or BPC.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-09-25 22:25:20 UTC
Sleeper/Takmahl/Talocan/Yan Jung Technology

Since there's almost never a reason to use storyline modules, I can't imagine why more than a very rare handful of people would ever want to train any of these.

There are probably more people who make use of training outpost construction 5...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
HardRockLife
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
#15 - 2013-09-25 22:30:58 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Sleeper/Takmahl/Talocan/Yan Jung Technology

Since there's almost never a reason to use storyline modules, I can't imagine why more than a very rare handful of people would ever want to train any of these.

There are probably more people who make use of training outpost construction 5...

Nah some of the nicer ones use lvl 5, the issue is the items have a nil drop rate.
In the dungeon of super suffering with extra pain and warp scramble to make you die.
But they have a rule- no podding the egger.
Arec Bardwin
#16 - 2013-09-25 22:37:12 UTC
Tactical Shield Manipulation V Roll
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#17 - 2013-09-25 23:18:27 UTC
Arec Bardwin wrote:
Tactical Shield Manipulation V Roll
Although that doesn't let you use new modules, it does have a sensible effect.
That effect may or may not be insignificant compared to the training time you'd have to put in it ...