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WTF does NPC corp matter?
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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#61 - 2013-09-24 20:55:41 UTC
people do not like npc corps because it hides who that person is in a game where you make a false personality to hide who you are What?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#62 - 2013-09-24 21:14:04 UTC
Not much I could add to the topic, handed out some likes.

Still feel like posting a wall-o-text to make a point that has been made a couple of times already. I would like to catch back on where the OP said it would be closeminded not to listen to anyone who's alliance shuns the use of mains on the forum for reputable purposes. That policy in and of itself is cowardly... and here you are, adhering to their rules of behaviour and then hiding behind them by using an alt. Hah, you have yielded for a more "comfortable" position and now find your alts shunned by a "vocal minority" that regularly posts the forums with their mains. HTFU. An open mind is like a fortress, with it's gates unbarred and opened. A narrow mind is focussed and dedicated to the task at hand.

I don't care if you are using a cyno alt, forum alt or hauling alt: alts are a disease that need to be purged from New Eden. Burn the Heretic, Kill the Mutant, Purge the Unclean!
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2013-09-24 21:19:18 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


I have yet to see why someone would post in a pc ran corp if they are a known awoxer or engage in continuous safaris.

(Solo pilots matter btw and do definitely generate content).


Sure they do. Minimally. Whereas, characters in player-run corps interact with other players more consistently, building more long-term friendships, forging more alliances, defending more territory, etc. Those players simply contribute "more" to pgc. It's even been shown that participation in player-run corps has a measurable effect on player retention. It isn't even debatable.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule. Does the fact that a guy with a npc main ganks occasionally matter? Yes. Undocking from the station matters. Everyone who is undocked right now is contributing to pgc by providing opportunities to other players. But if the recipient of npc-corp player aggression cannot retaliate, via wardec or because of disposable alt syndrome, then the contribution to pgc is lessened. Should we celebrate and treat equally as a group, those characters which avoid player interaction and contribute to pgc minimally? It's a valid (and long-debated) question.

Imo, no. For the health of the game, they should be joshed a little. I respect everyone's right to share an opinion. (And I have frequently written that a good idea stands on its own merit.) But I also respect and understand why the stigma against npc mains and npc forum alts exists.

YK



Do you honestly think that someone who joins a corp with the intention of robbing them blind or trying to sabotage them is in fact representing them just because they have that corp ticker?

Not trying to excite anger out of you, but that is pretty naive.

Most people who know how to do it, admittedly do not belong to a corp, or are doing it for anyone other than themselves. And would spend more "true" time in a npc corp other than a pc corp (that they wish to represent, using that npc corp as a shield, not a unwillingness to socialize).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#64 - 2013-09-24 21:24:54 UTC
And as I wrote, there are exceptions to every rule. But as a group, on the whole, characters in npc corps contribute less to pgc.

Whether you think that's naive or not is irrelevant.

I stand by what I wrote.

YK
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2013-09-24 21:26:57 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
people do not like npc corps because it hides who that person is in a game where you make a false personality to hide who you are What?



But see that's where it's disingenuous to simply agree or disagree with a post based on who wrote it.

If my industrial pilot posted a strategem on why structure grinding is terrible, he would be laughed at. No one knows who he is or why he would be believed.

If he copy/pasta'd from someone who DOES know and would immediately be agreed with just because he is who he is, you would have an altogether different response.

But the facts wouldn't change.

That's the problem with these forums, and why using npc corps as any sort of reason or excuse is redundant.

Especially in a game based on having multiple pilots.

Anyone who exercises that discrimination is only hurting and short changing themselves.

Which doesn't make sense at all.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-09-24 21:27:49 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:

So post with your main and be judged on the quality of your content. Problem solved.

Everyone has a main, right?

Yes. Mine happens to be a shitposting forum troll in an NPC corp.

If the post was judged by the quality of the content, the posting character would be irrelevant. You are rarely judged just by the content of the post. The mere determination of you being in a NPC corp, is generally the result of a search for ammunition for argumentum ad hominem. Finding no satisfaction, the fact you hide your space faring character becomes the ammunition.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2013-09-24 21:27:51 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
And as I wrote, there are exceptions to every rule. But as a group, on the whole, characters in npc corps contribute less to pgc.

Whether you think that's naive or not is irrelevant.

I stand by what I wrote.

YK



Fair enough. I just questioned such a strong response to a topic that would seem to require much more open mindedness.

Thanks for being candid.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2013-09-24 21:30:42 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

So post with your main and be judged on the quality of your content. Problem solved.

Everyone has a main, right?

Yes. Mine happens to be a shitposting forum troll in an NPC corp.

If the post was judged by the quality of the content, the posting character would be irrelevant. You are rarely judged just by the content of the post. The mere determination of you being in a NPC corp, is generally the result of a search for ammunition for argumentum ad hominem. Finding no satisfaction, the fact you hide your space faring character becomes the ammunition.



You'd be surprised I think on how often obscurity is better as a strength than a weakness.

Especially on the forums.

I've noticed how often people seem to feel the need to come to others' aid like it mattered. In my eyes, I see that as a weakness since those cohorts show an inclination to believe their buddy cannot handle it.

But then, I also came from old forum warrior stock where flame wars had quite a bit more finesse than simple chest beating lol.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-09-24 22:04:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Murk Paradox wrote:
Not to be truly rant-ish in nature or anything...

But I have seen a good share of people using "npc alt" or "npc corp" as a means to what... discredit someone? Insult them?

I do not get it.


Why do you even waste your time trying to understand?
When you know how much NPC alts /were/are used by main characters and most old as Eve is you should get the picture.

"Do what I say not what I do"

Stupid are simply stupid, might it be because of someones skin color, size, weight, religion, political ideas etc etc doesn't matter, the simple fact they're stupid and no matter how much you try to understand it will not change the main issue: stupid

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#70 - 2013-09-24 22:16:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Just because they are in an NPC corp now doesnt mean they always were
…oh you mean the thing that's very easy to check?

Quote:
Your statement is displaying your own ignorance.
Not really, no, because that is indeed what it suggests (especially when combined with the kind of misinformation they usually spread).

Yes really.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#71 - 2013-09-24 22:18:43 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Yes really.
Maybe you should actually read the thread…
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#72 - 2013-09-24 22:19:03 UTC
You guys really want to argue over main vs alt or why hide behind a forum alt? Why have a forum name at all? Why not post with your real name and address?

The logic behind the argument just isint there.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-09-24 22:31:05 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:

You aren't going to wardec anyone regardless of if you like what they post or not.

I've witnessed forum inspired wardecs in the double digits in my limited time here. If you're interested, ask around in C&P. It very much happens. But usually as a reality check to people who are very much out of tune with EvE.

Murk Paradox wrote:

I've noticed how often people seem to feel the need to come to others' aid like it mattered. In my eyes, I see that as a weakness since those cohorts show an inclination to believe their buddy cannot handle it.

Sometimes, people post thing so pants-on-head ********, that jumping in is irresistible.

Jenn aSide wrote:

That's it. But NPC corp player could be an experienced player who is in an alliance but doesn't want people to know who they "really" are. They use npc alts for forum posters to hide from the potential repercussions of their posting. I think it's cowardly when people do that.

I've had some players in corp get mad enough about getting shot for things other corp members did in game, let alone forum posts. I don't much care about my space pixels, it's more my mates I'd rather not disclose.

Posting things like "lol my corp mate afk mines with billion isk implants" in C&P, while in a small corp, is not going to go over well. The veil of the NPC corp lets me cheer on the fabulous content generation of people like Solstice Project and Tara Read, even while they're podding my mates. I get to have my cake and eat it too, laughing all along whether we're getting in a scrap with Marmite, Whores in space or trying to welp triage carriers into Kill it with Fire.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#74 - 2013-09-24 22:32:38 UTC
NPC corp alts are the best.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#75 - 2013-09-24 23:29:44 UTC
Generally, my only issue with someone using an NPC corp alt is when it's seemingly an experienced player who rolled a brand new alt just to bellyache on the forums about a single issue. It causes me to question what their motives might truly be, that they can't be bothered to post with a character that actually has some kind of verifiable history behind it. Even better is when they start demanding that people prove they know what they're talking about or verify their experiences.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#76 - 2013-09-25 01:25:45 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:

So just out of curiosity... if I belong in an alliance that does not appreciate public contact and I decide that I want to still be socially involved on these forums... my words will fall on deaf ears because I use a pilot I have in a npc corp?


That means you'r ein the wrong alliance. Join a video game group that governs your ability to communicate with other players on a video game's forum is way too much.

I was in such an alliance once I found the rule to be silly so i found a corp in an alliance that didn't take things anywhere nearthat seriously.

Quote:

Interesting. I mean, it's flat out close minded.

But interesting notion nonetheless.

Tell me something. Say you have someone of a genius caliber who only recently started playing Eve and is not in a player ran corp or has a history but obviously is smart enough to apply his/her intelligence to the game to make sense.

Do your principles still apply?


if he is new and isn't hiding, there is no issue for me, can't speak for Xen of course.

The point is that being scared of other players in a game to the point of needing to hide behind yet another pretend name is something i consider to be extremely lame. CCP allows it, so to each his own.
Maliandra
Doomheim
#77 - 2013-09-25 01:29:31 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
A certain degree of accountability. For example: If you're giving someone advice about solo pvp, it would be helpful if you've actually solo pvp'd before.

A mission runner whose never been in sov before could comment on sov mechanics, despite never having actually even been in sov. Since any NPC alt can say anything without any way to confirm if they actually have any relevant experience, it makes their opinions fairly worthless.


Except in world of alts, this is a completely stupid way opf looking at someone's post. The big problem coming from these accusation of NPC corp and other various similar accusation is they attack the avatar of the poster inseatd of his content. It's the easy way to counter a post and yet, it's always used as if it was a legit counter by many people instead of putting facts foward to prove thier own side of the discussion to be better.

So post with your main and be judged on the quality of your content. Problem solved.

Everyone has a main, right?
What you meant to say was:

So post with your main and when someone disagrees proceed to be harassed in-game endlessly with mercenaries and trolls.

CCP promotes such behaviour and as such draws the most vile personalities into this game. Those of us who are normal do what we have to do to protect ourselves.
Maliandra
Doomheim
#78 - 2013-09-25 01:33:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Maliandra
Domanique Altares wrote:
Generally, my only issue with someone using an NPC corp alt is when it's seemingly an experienced player who rolled a brand new alt just to bellyache on the forums about a single issue. It causes me to question what their motives might truly be, that they can't be bothered to post with a character that actually has some kind of verifiable history behind it. Even better is when they start demanding that people prove they know what they're talking about or verify their experiences.
It's as simple as this: If I were to call you every insult in the book right now, you probably would shrug it off more or less. I would then move on and forget about you. That is why you can safely post with your main.

In your situation, I will return fire and lament me with insults. I would do everything in my power to make that person feel like a shithead because IMO they deserve it. That is how my personality works, vengeful and vindictive. I don't want to be endlessly harassed for it.

As such I can be brutal when needed using this alt, and not sacrifice the integrity of my actual characters or their corps.

Don't blame me for that or other NPC characters. Blame CCP for drawing in players that force us into these predicaments to begin with.
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#79 - 2013-09-25 02:14:20 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Not to be truly rant-ish in nature or anything...

But I have seen a good share of people using "npc alt" or "npc corp" as a means to what... discredit someone? Insult them?

I do not get it.

If a goon says "pubbie" (like they aren't the pubbie here anyways or something heh) it's funny how it's meant to be a slight. I mean seriously, a npc corp member has more connection to the eve forums than an offsite member....

Food for thought.

But anyways, back to the point. If I was not in a npc corp (Which I'm not) and you did not like what I said on the forums... what exactly are you going to do about it?

Wardec my corp?

Set a bounty?

Do you honestly think saying "publord" or "npc alt" or "npc corp member" or any version of is going to make any sort of... impact?

Anyways, like I said, it's not a rant or anything, just something that seems so out of place in a game made for alts and subterfuge looks so odd when you poster like you're being cool for calling someone what amounts to be... well, actually more important than yourself (collective "you" to those who call others those names).

It just looks way too much like you see someone insult someone in a language they don't understand. What's the point if they don't understand?


This is what the future is going to look like as the Bully movement encompasses more and more

You call people silly names to be sillly.

Same reason you razz someone about their hair-cut.

If you think you teasing someone about their haircut is to me mean, you've really missed the point.

It's more a test of "is this guy a good sport" .. a bit like of "does the guy have enough self confidence not to get angry or hurt but have a pithy comeback?"

I do get surprised sometimes when I'm on games and some guy says noob like he actually cares.. in that case I know the guy is a bit dysfuntional and I try to hold myself back from taunting him into a fury.

Some times I can't help but pull his strings... act like I don't quite understand him in a way that makes him more frustrated and the other people online can sense that you're leading him on but he can't. .... as you draw him more and more in with your increasingly feigned "noobacy" the others listening hear him start turning into a spazz.

Then you end with a very well adjusted and calm , and not sarcastic at all "I really appreciate your pointers.. Ill need to work at that" which , and he suddenly kind of see's he's be becoming a spazz.

...

Seriously though, the rites of passages in fraternities and stuff.. the hazing and feigned mental abuse (or abuse you later find out to be fake) really help learn that if people are giving you ****, they're either teasing you, or faking it, or just not worthy of consideration.

If you're not accustomed to insults.. if you haven't been inured to them systematically over a legnth of time, you'll get rattled even though you know someone is saying irational things or has just temporarily lost their temper and is exaggerating for dramatic effect. There is nothing wrong with some hyberbole.. just don't believe it and it's all pretty comic

(as long as you don't smirk while they're going nuts -- fraternities help with that too because sometimes people pretending to hate you say the most idiotic things everyone in the room, is restraining laughing - but if you smirk.. you're doing push-ups)

Learn that you're important no matter what anyone else says.. Do not base gain your self esteem from what other's think of you although make allowance for the possiblity there might be a grain of something in what they're saying that you can think on later.

Don't worry about being bad at computer games.... heck I'm a great Dad, love reading books to kids and coaching soccer on the weekends .. I don't take any self esteem what-soever from how quick I can lock the target the FC calls.

I do try my best. I understand fully that if I do a bad job I won't get selected as a team mate. I might be hard on myself when I know I can do better... but , if some guy says "you suck " and I'll laugh and say, you're usually right but I think I got it right that time... or .. "you're right, that was a pretty brain dead mistake".

The whole Idea that you care that someone calls you names is alien to me....
.... its even more alien that you'd care what names someone you didn't respect calls you something...
.... its hard for me to respect anyone who says rude things in seriousness and easy for me to ignore rude things said in hyperebole or when they're in a tirade..

.. people saying hurtfull things in a tirade probably don't mean it so don't be hurt by it..

.
Dalto Bane
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-09-25 02:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalto Bane
Maliandra wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Generally, my only issue with someone using an NPC corp alt is when it's seemingly an experienced player who rolled a brand new alt just to bellyache on the forums about a single issue. It causes me to question what their motives might truly be, that they can't be bothered to post with a character that actually has some kind of verifiable history behind it. Even better is when they start demanding that people prove they know what they're talking about or verify their experiences.
It's as simple as this: If I were to call you every insult in the book right now, you probably would shrug it off more or less. I would then move on and forget about you. That is why you can safely post with your main.

In your situation, I will return fire and lament me with insults. I would do everything in my power to make that person feel like a shithead because IMO they deserve it. That is how my personality works, vengeful and vindictive. I don't want to be endlessly harassed for it.

As such I can be brutal when needed using this alt, and not sacrifice the integrity of my actual characters or their corps.

Don't blame me for that or other NPC characters. Blame CCP for drawing in players that force us into these predicaments to begin with.


I can be brutal when needed using this main, and not sacrifice the integrity of my other actual characters or their corps. Fear of reprisal is keeping you from taking ownership of your words. I do not utilize these forums, as I am not fond of feeding trolls, flaming or s***posting(much) as I'm sure you will call this, just that.

NPC Corps are outdated, overused, and very much abused by player who are, in fact terrible at Eve. I do not mind the forum alts as much as I mind the in game NPC Corp Alts, and Mains for that matter. The abuse I speak of is the circumvention of War Decs, off-grid boosters, and logistics to name a few. These tactics along with botting carries over to the forums where posting as a main, or alt of an NPC Corp can be viewed as someone who is either- Scared, hiding something, no useful first-hand knowledge of what they speak, or uses decietful tactics to gain an upper hand/risk adverse, etc.

Drops Mic