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orbit v's keep at range

Author
neo smith
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-09-14 11:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: neo smith
so im still at it learning solo pvp

in watching some utube video's somemtime the pilot will orbit other ships they will keep at range. whats the reason for choosing one over the other ?

if say im flying a kitting ship and anothe kiter jumps into the plex would i keep at range and orbit a brawler if one jumped in ?.
as i just orbit all atm :)

thanks in advance


Neo
neo smith
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-09-14 11:18:14 UTC
double post
Logical Chaos
Very Italian People
The Initiative.
#3 - 2013-09-14 12:43:09 UTC
Orbit > Keep at range as you noticed except for this situation:

You want to get away from a ship as quick as possible (keep at range set to 90000) aka bailing out. So you set keep at range and then you look for celestials in that direction where you can align to. Keep in mind that if you are fighting multiple enemies you might end up burning towards them if you do not pay attention so manual piloting is superior to this in most cases.
Criseyde
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-09-14 13:48:46 UTC
Orbiting increases your transversal, minimising the amount you get hit if the opponent has weapons with tracking (and / or lower tracking speed).

Keep at range minimises transversal, but maintains distance better, so can be used to maximise your own damage with weapons that use tracking, or where you just want to concentrate on maintaining distance.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#5 - 2013-09-14 14:47:33 UTC
If the other person's weapon system can't kill you before you kill them if you apply your dps well then keep at range works, though if you are trying to hold a specific range then often manually piloting is preferred. If you are sniper fit keep at range is often used to select the closest enemy then hit keep at range while you burn em down (in FW most commonly done with sniper corms and similar ships).
JAF Anders
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#6 - 2013-09-14 15:28:46 UTC
neo smith wrote:
so im still at it learning solo pvp

in watching some utube video's somemtime the pilot will orbit other ships they will keep at range. whats the reason for choosing one over the other ?

if say im flying a kitting ship and anothe kiter jumps into the plex would i keep at range and orbit a brawler if one jumped in ?.
as i just orbit all atm :)

thanks in advance


Neo



Keep At Range and Orbit are directly related to the mechanics of Optimal Range+Falloff and Tracking Speed. For most brawls, you pick the one you're better at and work from there.

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.

Clahim
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-09-14 15:50:48 UTC
I'd like to add that if you are a MWD kiting frigate, orbiting will mess with your opponent's drone dps by quite a lot.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#8 - 2013-09-14 19:21:02 UTC
if you outrange the opponent and you have slow tracking guns you don't want to orbit to maximize your damage.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#9 - 2013-09-14 19:55:16 UTC
If you are a missile kiter then keep doing what you are doing, makes no difference until you start running guns.

- If using guns you increase applied dps against targets who cannot reach you by using 'keep at range' as transversal is minimized thus improving hit quality.
*** Note: Slicer's WILL reach you, even the brawlers, so keep that in mind and plan accordingly.
- If you are a gun kiter against another gun kiter - it depends. Do a quick calculation in your head to see how the dps/EHP ratios look, you might be OK doing the circle dance otherwise maximize dps to drop him fast .. keep in mind that fits may vary so what you see is not always what you get Smile In most cases both of you will need major repairs afterwards so factor that in.
- If you are a gun kiter against a missile kiter with all options, stick your barrel up his nose and pull the trigger. Missiles need time to do their work, their tanks are usually sub-par and they often carry TDs which will mess you up bad if they get range.

Final note: Kiting in/against frigs where speeds are often very similar with MWD's you must be prepared to "go manual" at a moments notice as the lag-time (especially with propulsion running) in 'orbit' and 'keep range' can be exploited to get a scram/web on you. That was why the old Dramiel was unsurpassed (read: broken) in the role, massive speed and negligible mass made it effectively unkillable if flown with attention.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
#10 - 2013-09-17 20:08:03 UTC
If you are kiting, and your guns have horrid tracking (most rail boats) then keep at range is superior. If you sport guns with fantastic tracking at range (pulse lasers) then orbit is preferable. As Clahim said, if you are fighting drone boats, orbiting will force his drones to MWD and catch back up to you, causing many misses from then and therefore mitigated damage. I personally don't use those buttons a whole lot, as I find manual control of my ship far superior. If I find a situation in which I am traveling too fast to manual pilot well, then I rely on the auto-commands.

Try both and figure out what works best for whichever ship(s) you fly.

Good luck!

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2013-09-17 22:19:45 UTC
Explaining all of it would be a lot of work.. Basically once you understand the core game mechanics you will understand it

It all has to do with how much you have to worry about tracking vs how much they have to worry about tracking along with making sure you don't get slingshotted and so and so.

Not easy to explain in a couple of paragraphs.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Skelee VI
C5 Flight
Fraternity.
#12 - 2013-09-18 20:03:33 UTC
Really depends on target and what weapons you are using against it! Are you going to be able to hold point too.
I use both but focus on what target ship is doing, plus if you know he has something like scram or web to avoid etc. Sometimes you an get aay with just an orbit if target is slow or when u see he can't track. another thing is your cap, if you are buzzing around will you run out of cap?
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#13 - 2013-09-19 01:50:19 UTC
it depends about your weapons and about enemy weapons, usually if your orbit lowers more incoming damage and does not lower too much your own damage it is best option, but in some cases your own weapons may suffer more about your own orbit movement than enemy weapons so then it is just best to stay on optimal range, assuming that you can tank incoming enemy damage long enough.
JAF Anders
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#14 - 2013-09-19 16:34:51 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
slingshotted


I believe you mean "slingshat".

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.

neo smith
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-09-20 07:00:02 UTC
thanks for the answers all


i will give some ideas a try


neo
Veritaal
Veri-Tech Tax Haven
#16 - 2013-09-25 02:04:51 UTC
Keep at range : Good for keeping range with long range fits, when you know you can beat them in a slugging match, and if you are against a blaster boat and you are keeping 10KM range with a scram/web.

Orbit : All else.
Othran
Route One
#17 - 2013-09-25 16:51:27 UTC
Toterra has done some nice videos which will probably help you with this.

They're not the usual sort of "look at all my effortless kills" videos - he fucks up in some and explains how/why.

I've never flown a navy slicer but I'm going to give that a try sometime based just on his slicer video.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#18 - 2013-09-25 18:52:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Well SOME if not MOST pilots will ONLY use "Orbit" as default for skirmishing. Even less try to do ALL manual piloting and find that in scaled engagements with multiple targets spatial awareness is a problem. Which is because manual piloting is more talk than anything else as far as being truly applicable to combat.

I use a combination of "orbit", "keep at range", and "manual piloting". For me it works out to be something like 40%, 35, and 25% manual piloting. In some cases based on a really difficult engagement it will ONLY be keep at range and manual piloting.

To put things into context. Keep it range moves your ship directly perpendicular to the ship you're targeting. I often use this to bring down transversal in a Talos or Oracle against an incoming frigate for example. While "orbiting" is just what it sound like. You orbit a ship or whatever else on your overview at a pre-input range. Manual piloting is more about quick reactions and compensating for the former 2 mechanics.

Umm!

Real game example of a difficult engagement where the level of spatial awareness and reaction of a pilot is limited:

You are a pro solo pilot and you find yourself engaging 4 ships with varying capabilities and pilot experience/skill. You're in a Talos and your relative velocity and damage projection/application is superior to all ships involved. Using a combination of keep it range, orbiting and manual piloting you are able to keep at least one ship pointed and apply damage to it. When one moves into a position where it may be able to catch you. You drop point on your current target, target the other ship and hit keep it range. Moving you away from the current incoming ship and keeping the engagement in tact. Now you can hit orbit in this kind of engagement without running into another ship and sometimes doing so will protect you from incoming ships or someone warping to some object directly behind you and landing on you. Now you never really know where someone is warping in from most of the time and whelp v0v. In this example that bad thing aforementioned happens and 1 of the total 4 ships is coming in. You have to act while its coming out of warp before it can react it self. You can either to that manually and often when I do this I get it horribly wrong esp in split second decisions. In any case when something is coming in I'm already overheating if i can and moving away from my current targets until I'm able to to establish the relative positions, velocity and damage projection/application of all ships on grid. So, I'm now 35k from the other 2 and the other dude has just came in and he is 12 km from where I am. I hit "keep it range" in this situation and it moves me away from the incoming ship in ANY direction perpendicular to said ship. From there i can make any compensation manually to help out but the immediate is to move away from the other ship that has nearly caught me in the wrong position. I now see the last ship incoming to and i have to make the same compensation. at some point I regroup and re-engage.

The above happens to me a lot from frigates to battlecruisers. So yeah! There's a limit to how many ships you can react to at a given distance and avoid. It's really like dancing in fact. It's also a lot easier when you have an overheated web to stiff arm dudes and sh!t.

So yeah! Use all of them and you'll be better for it. Know your ship as well as its limits and your opponents limits.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Maximus Decimal
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-09-25 20:56:55 UTC
It's not about one being better than the other. That's like trying to compare a chainsaw with a frying pan. They are both good tools for a different job, if you try to use one when you should be using the other, your gunna' have a bad time.

If you want to learn about navigation and flying your ships, fly something light and fast where your speed is your tank, where if you aren't navigating properly, you die.

Condor, Slicer, Talwar, to name but a few. (im not saying that you cant put a 'tank' on them but ur speed/sig counts for alot)