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destroyers - gankers and high sec

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Dave Stark
#241 - 2013-09-18 21:34:09 UTC
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Careful on that term printing isk.

Mining does not print isk and neither does station trading.
You can earn isk for your character doing these things but you are not printing isk. Just moving it around.

For an example of isk printing; Missions do print isk .


on a personal level, you are obtaining wealth for practically 0 input.
although rightly, that wealth is a **** poor trickle.

which is half of the reason that i do it afk as **** when i mine.
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#242 - 2013-09-18 21:36:43 UTC
Crimson Gauntlet wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
You forgot that the max yield AFK isk printer should be able to do its job without ever undocking.

...but you already can print money without ever leaving the stations, it's called "station trading". Roll

Seriously guys: Evil miner carebears ruining my game boo hu? Doesn't that get old at some point? No wonder nothing ever changes in this game...

Station trading is a totally different kettle of fish, it's an unforgiving and brutal form of "clean" PvP, and can be hilariously expensive when you get it wrong


This. There is actually risk of loss in station trading.

Without us, there is no risk of loss whatsoever in mining. It's nothing but inflation. And as a firm, zealous believer in both the Code and in Capitalism, I will continue to fight both inflation and afk mining (which again, tantamount to botting/cheating) where ever I see it.


Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MZD6-vGQms

and learn what inflation is in eve and what is not inflation in eve.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#243 - 2013-09-18 21:41:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Station trading is a totally different kettle of fish, it's an unforgiving and brutal form of "clean" PvP, and can be hilariously expensive when you get it wrong

...and still it can make you rich pretty easily with a minimal daylie affort, as does finding a lucrative PVE-plex and emptying every day for loot. What I don't get is: Why is (AFK) mining the only dispicable, easy way of making money? CCP surely doesn't look at it this way... they continue to nerf ganking though... shouldn't that alone mean anything to you? Why do they do that? Because the miners are "whining"? You really think that?

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#244 - 2013-09-18 21:41:47 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
You forgot that the max yield AFK isk printer should be able to do its job without ever undocking.

...but you already can print money without ever leaving the stations, it's called "station trading". Roll

Seriously guys: Evil miner carebears ruining my game boo hu? Doesn't that get old at some point? No wonder nothing ever changes in this game...


18 nerfs to suicide ganking & the barge buff prove you wrong.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#245 - 2013-09-18 21:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Mallak Azaria wrote:
18 nerfs to suicide ganking & the barge buff prove you wrong.

I mean't significantly... that's not meaningful change, that's CCP coping with mechanics they think are actually broken, of course, gankers think it's targeted against them, and, of course, the evil whining miners are to blame... but, maybe, just maybe, it's CCPs way of telling you "we think that suicide ganking is stupid and you should drop it"? They will not tell you that outright, of course, cause that's not the way they do things... and still, they continue to nerf it.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Crimson Gauntlet
Six Gun Sound
#246 - 2013-09-18 21:48:03 UTC
Quote:
This perspective is hilarious.

It's perfectly normal they want that, because they get shot at.

And they keep getting shot at.

And thanks to the bumping, which pushed it into the sports domain,
over time, even *more* people will shoot them !


The only ones who gankers have to blame is themselves.


That perspective is hilarious.

It's perfectly normal to want to shoot miners, because they are the only player that thinks they should be able to make money by NOT playing the game.

And they keep saying that, over and over.

And thanks to their whining, a legitimate gameplay style has been nerfed over and over for the past decade.

What's worse, they have an attitude like they should be immune to the things other people do, which of course just makes the real players want to shoot them even more.

The only ones the miners have to blame is themselves.
Number of times my posts have come in after the dev/mod locked the thread:  1
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#247 - 2013-09-18 21:49:08 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
... they continue to nerf ganking though... shouldn't that alone mean anything to you? Why do they do that? Because the miners are "whining"? You really think that?


Yes. We do think that. Why? Because it's as simple as this: If CCP wanted high-sec ganking gone, it would be gone. Your guns would not cycle on a non-legal target, end of story, stuck in safety forever. But that's not the case. It still exists, and gets nerfed due to continued whining by people who get ganked.
Solstice Project's Alt
Doomheim
#248 - 2013-09-18 21:51:22 UTC
Crimson Gauntlet wrote:
Quote:
This perspective is hilarious.

It's perfectly normal they want that, because they get shot at.

And they keep getting shot at.

And thanks to the bumping, which pushed it into the sports domain,
over time, even *more* people will shoot them !


The only ones who gankers have to blame is themselves.


That perspective is hilarious.

It's perfectly normal to want to shoot miners, because they are the only player that thinks they should be able to make money by NOT playing the game.

And they keep saying that, over and over.

And thanks to their whining, a legitimate gameplay style has been nerfed over and over for the past decade.

What's worse, they have an attitude like they should be immune to the things other people do, which of course just makes the real players want to shoot them even more.

The only ones the miners have to blame is themselves.
You're a loser ... and actually proving my point.

Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)
Crimson Gauntlet
Six Gun Sound
#249 - 2013-09-18 21:51:45 UTC
Quote:
I mean't significatnly... that's not meaningful change, that's CCP coping with mechanics they think are actually broken


No, it was CCP caving in to a vocal minority claiming they would quit the game if their direct competition was not nerfed.

Quote:
of course, gankers think it's targeted against them, and, of course, the evil whining miners are to blame...


Considering that CCP has outright told us this? Yes, we do.

I am very surprised that you are completely unable to even attempt to listen to the other side of the story. Mining rots your brain, children...
Number of times my posts have come in after the dev/mod locked the thread:  1
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#250 - 2013-09-18 21:56:01 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Yes. We do think that. Why? Because it's as simple as this: If CCP wanted high-sec ganking gone, it would be gone. Your guns would not cycle on a non-legal target, end of story, stuck in safety forever. But that's not the case. It still exists, and gets nerfed due to continued whining by people who get ganked.

Wrong, they could NOT do that, cause when they would really rule out one way of playing the game, valid inside the sandbox, then they would break the base principle of said sandbox...

...and here is another thought: After each nerf, miners and gankers are whining... why do you think the miners get heard and the gankers aren't? Because they are more valuable players/customers? Don't make me laugh! Roll

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#251 - 2013-09-18 22:14:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Crimson Gauntlet wrote:
I am very surprised that you are completely unable to even attempt to listen to the other side of the story. Mining rots your brain, children...

Oh, I did listen (read) for quite some time, as unbiased as possible, and frankly, I have a hard time believing CCP did nerf ganking to cater to the miners... if they really did, then they are to blame, not said miners... I am a miner, and I never once complained about suicide ganking.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#252 - 2013-09-18 22:17:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Domanique Altares
Shalua Rui wrote:


...and here is another thought: After each nerf, miners and gankers are whining... why do you think the miners get heard and the gankers aren't? Because they are more valuable players/customers? Don't make me laugh! Roll


Because we don't whine. We just keep ganking. Over and over and over.

ETA:

Shalua Rui wrote:

Wrong, they could NOT do that, cause when they would really rule out one way of playing the game, valid inside the sandbox, then they would break the base principle of said sandbox...



Really? Just like they could NOT remove combat capitals from high sec? Just like they could NOT allow people to continue permatanking CONCORD? Valid gameplay styles that are now forbidden in 'the sandbox.'

You seem to be under the illusion that CCP can't do exactly whatever they want with this game.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#253 - 2013-09-18 22:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Domanique Altares wrote:
Because we don't whine. We just keep ganking. Over and over and over.

You don't? I'm not quite sure what forum you are reading... Blink

Domanique Altares wrote:
You seem to be under the illusion that CCP can't do exactly whatever they want with this game.

Of course they CAN, they just don't want to... but that also is a design choice... or they are throwing dice? Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#254 - 2013-09-18 22:33:25 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Because we don't whine. We just keep ganking. Over and over and over.

You don't? I'm not quite sure what forum you are reading...

These forums.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#255 - 2013-09-18 22:34:27 UTC
Doris Dents wrote:
This thread just proves highsec 'bears won't be satisfied until suicide ganking in empire is literally impossible, as in everyone is safety on with no way to change it. They demanded we were forced into frigate sized ships by the insurance nerf but still that's not enough. Never mind they have mining ships that are all but impossible to gank with a reasonable tank unless you have a gank fleet that'd be better off looking for freighters. They won't cease complaining until their max yield AFK isk printing machine is perfectly safe.


Well, the insurance nerf made a lot of sense. vOv

Crimson Gauntlet wrote:
I also find it funny that most of the cute little "suggestions" they make have a tendency to also make it much, much easier to mine AFK or to outright bot.
Honestly, at this point, ganking needs a buff, or exhumers need a nerf, they went too far. I say we take a page from the crybabies playbook, since it clearly works so well. Let's constantly campaign to have exhumers and concord nerfed.
Let's start with taking 5% off the base resists of exhumers. That's not really very much, right? All it would do is make their ships balanced.


I reckon exhumer base tank should be nerfed and their fittings are improved so that they can fit the same max tank or yield as they can now

No actual change if you bother fitting your ship. Which miners won't. Which will get them ganked. Which they'll complain about. Which is hilarious.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#256 - 2013-09-18 22:36:17 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Because we don't whine. We just keep ganking. Over and over and over.

You don't? I'm not quite sure what forum you are reading...

These forums.

These forums contain tears on both sides and yet still both sides do the same as they've always done in game.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#257 - 2013-09-18 22:37:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Dave Stark wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Thats... Not actually bad. Smile
Not 700 DPS, sure, but some of the right implants might boost it up nicely.

470 if you plug in 6% small hybrid turret damage, and 6% surgical strike implants in to that fitting.

here

Very sweet. I like that a lot. With a T2-fit Cat, and those implants, I could get within spitting distance of that semi-mythical 800DPS, overheated. Hmmmm...

Solstice Project's Alt wrote:
I've calculated that a 470 dps catalyst would put out 11.750 EFT oompf.

I've fitted a thrasher for oompf, including the 6% implants and get 375 dps.
That number, of course, is ridiculous.



So, using 280mm t2, two gyros and the implants i do 2k raw damage per shot.
I could push it to 2114, but that would lower the RoF more than half a second.


In a 25 second timeframe, my ship does 10k of EFT damage.

That's still around 1.750 less than the catalyst,
(unless i get one more volley, which could happen)
but the thrasher is *much* *much* more versatile.


In the way people use "dps" they are seriously overrating it.


Oh and don't forget the ******* link !
http://imgur.com/FOIkojp

All true. My fitting skills are just sub-par for a proper Gank-Thrasher. I really must see abuot fixing that sometime soon.

Ultimately, it's about what you can fit and fly to best effect. For me, that's a Cat. For now, at least.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#258 - 2013-09-18 22:39:36 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
These forums contain tears on both sides and yet still both sides do the same as they've always done in game.

Hu, thanks... I thought I'm suffering from selective perception or anything... Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#259 - 2013-09-18 22:40:33 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:

Wrong, they could NOT do that


So in this post, they CAN'T remove a currently valid gameplay style because 'sandbox,' and yet:

Shalua Rui wrote:

Of course they CAN


They can, because it would be a game design choice?

You seem to be conflicted. Either CCP can decide that something is no longer valid, such as high sec ganking, and they can remove it, or they cannot. Which is it?
The Git
Mercantile and Stuff
#260 - 2013-09-18 22:41:38 UTC
I wish those that enjoy and defend ganking miners would just man up and admit they do it because it's an easy game play style. No mysteries, very little tactics or strategy, and the end result is at least half known.

And find a different argument than the "they aren't playing the game!!!11", "they're afk and making money.....". Big effing deal. What possible effect does that have on your game play. Here's a clue, none.

Alliances that rent space are making money without being in the game. Moon production makes money without being in the game....blah, blah, blah...it is so tiresome.

Just admit it. Ganking miners is easy, mindless game play. Its barely more involved than mining while working on a spreadsheet.