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Balancing Feedback: Tier3 Battlecruisers

First post
Author
Aglais
Ice-Storm
Two Maidens One Chalice
#501 - 2011-11-15 05:17:36 UTC
Phantomania wrote:


I think we'remissing the point here!

In my case, like alot of other Missile focused Pilots, I am losing out on a NEW TOY from CCP!

Just like when all those PvP pilots whine when CCP decide to give us an Industrial ship for Christmas.

All the old missile boats have been spun and fitted to death, whats more boring than a Drake!

I wonder how many would have complained if CCP had announce the Tier3 BCs would all be "Heavy Stealtth Bombers" and JUST had Torps on all of them???

The Naga could have been fixed to have missiles, Torps or Cruise!

Its just the Hybrid Pilots who love CCPs idea as they have a choice of 2 new ships!

Cry


I'm sorry, but you're a bad. YOU are missing the point that Caldari use missiles AND hybrids.

Minmatar have to train two defensive systems. Don't whine about having to train for two offensive systems (hybrids and missiles). You'll notice that not all Caldari ships are pure missile boats. Yes, Caldari actually do have a good deal of pure missile boats. But the fact that they have hybrid gunships as well should tell you, Caldari is NOT pure missiles. So if you're Caldari, and flying purely missile boats, well... Broaden your horizons, you have loads more ships you could be using in new and different situations than just using your missile ships to chip away at NPCs. Naga is a hurtmobile. Get yourself some battleship hybrid turrets if you want, join in on the face removing.
Gazmin VanBurin
Boma Bull Corp
#502 - 2011-11-15 05:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Gazmin VanBurin
Im not exactly mad over the Nagas loss of missles, but I do wish a better option could have been implmented, I will say tho that great work at making the Talos seam even crappyer in comparison CCP, not only is the Naga still crap, its now the same flavor of crap as the Talos.
Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#503 - 2011-11-15 05:28:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
Sevenfold Sins wrote:
Here is an extreamly effective fit for the Naga before this patch, it was effective in both lv3 and lv4 missions and would of been effective as a pvp boat:

Highs:
8 arbalest heavy missile launchers

Mediums:
3 Invulnerability Field II
1 Y-S8 Hydrocarbon Afterburners
2 Large F-S9 Regolith shield induction

Lows:
1 Co-Processor II
2 Ballistic control system II

Rigs:
3 Medium core defence field extender I

Between its speed (isnt bad as a mission boat) and the fact that you can stagger the higher range launchers to constantly have missiles in space means that it had higher actual dps then the other caldari battlecruisers, 13k shield hp, 50% and up resists, and it fit nicely on the ship itself.

Mission Rating:

Lv4: The scarlet pirate (New mission for me, would rank around worlds collide level in difficulty against most mission fits) and should be able to handle most if not all combat lv4 missions

Lv3: Completed every lv3 thrown at the fit without blinking


All in all this ship can be extreamly effective when fitted correctly, it handles mission rats battlecruisers and lower faster then drones, doesnt have anywhere near as many range limitations as the pre-existing torp naga, could be effective in pvp with afew slight tweaks as the constant damage limits any sort of tank pulsing, and actually can have the tank to back it up.

So thanks CCP, you just turned a ship with great potential into one of the long line of useless caldari railgun platforms.

I really think that it is important that the Naga be able to use hybrids, CCP, I really do, but let me lay this out.

This man here showed some incredible ingenuity, and really made something interesting out of a missile naga: a ship that can speed tank level 4s. Given its wide selection of damage type, its kinetic damage disadvantage compared to the Drake is nullified and it becomes an excellent stepping stone for newer Caldari pilots such as himself, even allowing a segue into torpedoes or rails and blasters in the future. Not only this, but all the pilots who have trained millions upon millions of SP into missiles will be left in the dust, with no new ships to play with. EVE needs more viable missile ships, and without at least one of the new battlecruisers providing this, I fear that much will be lost.

The removal of the launcher hardpoints represents a great loss to the Naga's usability and usefulness to me, and I fear that the added damage bonus to hybrid turrets will almost completely supplant the already-forsaken Rokh. I would much rather it be changed to an all-torpedo ship, with better bonuses to torpedoes, than see it lose missiles entirely. At least this way all 4 weapon types are still spoken for.

The main (read: only) complaint with the Naga's DPS application that I have heard, aside from people who just hate Torpedoes (which are great) is that the missiles are just too damn slow. It needs to be increased by at least a factor of 2, with its flight time decreased to match the original range, or it is borderline unusable while moving at the speeds it does. Consider adding this as a role bonus.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

Shiroi Okami
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#504 - 2011-11-15 05:40:41 UTC
Haha, almost Widdershins, almost. 9/10

My Latest Video: Freestyle III

Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#505 - 2011-11-15 05:42:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
Maksim Cammeren wrote:
Stealing someone else's dps graph. Currently on SiSi, T3 BC's and a muninn, fitted to hit at 110km, drone dps not included:

http://mitglied.multimania.de/roemern/EVE/Ti3BC110km2.gif

blue - tornado // red - oracle // green - talos // yellow - naga // (purple - muninn)

(I don't have the targets size/transverse that was used, but I can look it up if someone really cares).

That graph for the oracle looks completely wrong. I don't have the faintest clue how you can get an Oracle to do less than 500 DPS, unless you completely gimped the entire fit just to shoot at an arbitrarily chosen 110km optimal range.




Shiroi Okami wrote:
Haha, almost Widdershins, almost. 9/10

I'm not bloody trolling, mate. This is my serious face.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

Shiroi Okami
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#506 - 2011-11-15 06:01:09 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Maksim Cammeren wrote:
Stealing someone else's dps graph. Currently on SiSi, T3 BC's and a muninn, fitted to hit at 110km, drone dps not included:

http://mitglied.multimania.de/roemern/EVE/Ti3BC110km2.gif

blue - tornado // red - oracle // green - talos // yellow - naga // (purple - muninn)

(I don't have the targets size/transverse that was used, but I can look it up if someone really cares).

That graph for the oracle looks completely wrong. I don't have the faintest clue how you can get an Oracle to do less than 500 DPS, unless you completely gimped the entire fit just to shoot at an arbitrarily chosen 110km optimal range.




Shiroi Okami wrote:
Haha, almost Widdershins, almost. 9/10

I'm not bloody trolling, mate. This is my serious face.


But, dat moustachio

My Latest Video: Freestyle III

m0cking bird
Doomheim
#507 - 2011-11-15 06:21:33 UTC
What up naga's!? Ship looks p cool! P sure Caldari ships will get alot out of this up and coming expansion tbh. Which will be great! Oracle is a kinda scary. Guess I'll be seeing fleets of those golden [email protected]@rds alpha-ing and nano-ing about.


-proxyyyy
Sam Bowein
Sense Amid Madness
#508 - 2011-11-15 07:08:03 UTC
The strange thing is that, with the new bonuses, the Naga will probably be a better blaster boat than the Talos: more range, more speed, more agility (if you consider the Talos will be armor tanked).

And while Caldari are supposed to use railguns, here too the Talos is better than the Naga for this: the problem of railguns is poor tracking, not lack of rangeā€¦

It is really strange that each ship seems to fix the defects of the weapon system it is not supposed to use P
Durie
Perkone
Caldari State
#509 - 2011-11-15 07:21:44 UTC
Sort of disappointed that there wont be a missile based tier3 BC. Especially considering both of the hybrid ships are obsoleted by the Tornado.

What would have been wrong with upping the torpedo numbers a bit?
Maksim Cammeren
Taxless Corp
#510 - 2011-11-15 07:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Maksim Cammeren
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Maksim Cammeren wrote:
Stealing someone else's dps graph. Currently on SiSi, T3 BC's and a muninn, fitted to hit at 110km, drone dps not included:

http://mitglied.multimania.de/roemern/EVE/Ti3BC110km2.gif

blue - tornado // red - oracle // green - talos // yellow - naga // (purple - muninn)

(I don't have the targets size/transverse that was used, but I can look it up if someone really cares).

That graph for the oracle looks completely wrong. I don't have the faintest clue how you can get an Oracle to do less than 500 DPS, unless you completely gimped the entire fit just to shoot at an arbitrarily chosen 110km optimal range.



That is correct, the fits were designed to hit at ~110km. The point was to show that the Naga is better at those ranges.

Edit: While having a dual-weapon system Naga would be cool, the point is to counter people who say that it will be useless.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#511 - 2011-11-15 08:25:45 UTC
A torpedo spewing monster would have been fun (With explosion velocity bonus and torps' speed bonus), but the current Naga is a solid PVP ship. Like I said, I have literally catastrophic hybrid skills, and I still managed to do almost as much damage as a Tornado (For which I have all V).
Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#512 - 2011-11-15 08:37:09 UTC
This Naga balance ruined the whole new battlecruiser thing for me. If I wanted another stupid hybrid boat I would fly the Talos.
Black Punisher
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#513 - 2011-11-15 08:55:13 UTC
Please return the 10% bonus for the Tornado, it was its feature. Why do you compare it with Talos? it has about 30% dps more then Tornado. And now the Tornado has low dps and low faloff. Plus the Talos has drones now, and the Tornado reduced faloff Ugh
And the Oracle has about 1k dps at 20km and 700+ at 50km, and its normal? and the Tornado with its 10% faloff is not? Strange logics. Nerf then Oracle too and the optima; bonus on Naga.

And btw, with the new Naga, what is the purpose of Talos? Maybe the Torpedo\Hybrid Naga was better?
Kmelx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#514 - 2011-11-15 08:57:32 UTC
Kind of disappointed to lose the torps as well, I'd have loved to have seen a truly effective torp boat as many others have noted we already have a hybrid tier 3 BC, for the purpose of balance we should have a missile tier 3 as well
Dark Voynix
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#515 - 2011-11-15 09:06:25 UTC
Can somebody recap all ships bonuses and slots? cannot login into sisi and im quite lost to all changes.
Avila Cracko
#516 - 2011-11-15 10:16:54 UTC
Kmelx wrote:
Kind of disappointed to lose the torps as well, I'd have loved to have seen a truly effective torp boat as many others have noted we already have a hybrid tier 3 BC, for the purpose of balance we should have a missile tier 3 as well



i agree...

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Via Shivon
#517 - 2011-11-15 10:25:26 UTC
bad desicion to cut a torp ship :(

2x hybrid weaponship sucks
cyka776
#518 - 2011-11-15 10:31:34 UTC
wtf was anybody really planning to do with torps on the naga except die? its much stronger now
Lord Salty
The Classy Gentlemans Corporation
Moist.
#519 - 2011-11-15 10:46:41 UTC
hey all. i havent read all the other replies but i gotta put in my 2 cents.

Firstly, Thanks CCP. you ******* might as well not bothered putting missiles into the game. CCP idiots: 'here players, have a weapons system that isnt going get any kind of love'
why are u having the Talos, a good looking hybrid ship that does the job and then the Naga a worse Talos without drones.
Its really good to know that u dont support a quarter of the weapons in the game.

as for all the people that said a torp boat is bad etc etc i think u need to stop sucking Amarr's ****. i know all of all who said torps are bad arent amarr players but i reckon a lot are. Every single ship with different setups are usefull, u just need to know how and when to use them.

also, torps typically have better range than blasters and will hit and do damage even if the target is moving. i know hybrids are getting buffed but torps will still be able to do that.
Sam Bowein
Sense Amid Madness
#520 - 2011-11-15 10:47:46 UTC
cyka776 wrote:
wtf was anybody really planning to do with torps on the naga except die? its much stronger now

they want a new toy for their l4 missionsā€¦

for which a torp naga would be ridiculous: good luck killing elite frigates with torps and no drones Cool