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AF for null ratting
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Leafar Nightfall
Silent Owls
#1 - 2013-09-17 14:00:03 UTC
I recently moved to null sec and I intended to use missions and ratting to fund my PvP, but since I currently lack the standings for good missions and need to make some money, I was thinking about using AFs for it. (I can fly battlecruisers but I'd rather sitck to the AFs since they are more affordable in case things go south.)

I am using Caldari, so that means Hawk or Harpy. I can use T2 Railguns but can't use T2 missile launchers, and I'll be ratting in guristas space. I also have a good stash of Hawks so I'd rather use them for now, but any tips about any of them are welcome.

I was running level 3s with a Hawk fit like below, so that would be my starting point. I don't have access to the game or EFT now, so it's comming from my memory and it's not reliable regarding some meta levels:

4x Prototype Arbalest Light Missile Launcher w/ Caldari Navy ammo

1x AB
1x Medium Shield Booster
1x 5a Shield Boost Amplifier
1x Eutetic Cap Charger
1x Eutectic Cap Charger or Shield Resist amplifier (can't remember)

1x Co-processor
1x Ballistic Control II

2x Missile Load Accelerator

Will it be possible kill rats with this, or will I die horribly in a fire before I can say "align to"? Or, as a matter of fact, is it even feasible to rat with an AF solo, even it being not the most efficient way?
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-09-17 14:58:47 UTC
Harpy is a strong little ship and deals nice amounts of dps with rails/blasters however for stronger groups haven't found anything stronger yet than Enyo except for Amarr rats (neuts)

You should be ok with blarpy

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-09-17 17:10:21 UTC
I used to use an Enyo to rat in Guristas space many years ago (MGAM-4 iirc). It worked but it was far from optimal. It takes an awful lot of time and small sized ammo to chew through a BS rat which really hurts your isk/hr and I couldn't even break the tanks on some of the high end BS rats. A moderately skilled BC or BS with meta 4 guns works much better.

So yes you can rat in null in an AF. But it is far from optimal.
BA Rooster
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-09-17 17:20:38 UTC
I use a Wolf. Works pretty well for its inntended use. However, a cruiser is typically a better choice.

Sentry Navy Vexor is nice.
Leafar Nightfall
Silent Owls
#5 - 2013-09-17 17:34:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Leafar Nightfall
I intend to go for the gallente frigs in the future but this would take too long for me now.

However, I just realised that a cheap BC fit would cost me almost the same of an AF if insured, since AF insurances don't pay much while BC difference between the ship and insurance price are usually below an AF price.

I will re-think this, but thanks for the tips so far. Good to know it might be possible too so I'll give it a try anyway Twisted
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-09-17 19:39:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tao Dolcino
AFs don't deal enough damages to be effective against battleships.
OK you are safer in an AF because you are fast and small, but you need to stay much longer at the same place to kill the BSs, increasing the risks to be spotted and attacked.
I'd use a cruiser-sized ship with a max of damages.
BCs are slower, with a bigger sig, and still using medium weps. Not my cup of tea for this kind of activity.
But in no case i would use a BS to roam alone in 0.0 !
Leafar Nightfall
Silent Owls
#7 - 2013-09-17 19:57:50 UTC
Is a T1 cruiser good enough?
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#8 - 2013-09-17 20:08:06 UTC
Leafar Nightfall wrote:
Is a T1 cruiser good enough?

Same problem as with the AF. You can probably kill the rats, but a bigger ship will do it far better.
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#9 - 2013-09-17 22:12:02 UTC
Leafar Nightfall wrote:
Is a T1 cruiser good enough?



You are a Caldari pilot in Guristas space - get a MWD HAM Drake and insure it. Don't try to reinvent the wheel if you don't have to.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#10 - 2013-09-18 05:44:23 UTC
Stealth bomber for battleship ratting is great.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#11 - 2013-09-18 06:57:53 UTC
If you really want an AF to rat here's something that's quick, does lots of dps (for an AF), can tank the spawns easily, AND can PvP as well.

[Harpy, PvP Active]

Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Shield Booster II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Small Capacitor Booster II

Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Salvager II /OFFLINE

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

You can stick anything in the extra high that's offline, there's no PG or CPU to online it unless you offline something else. Does 295dps with Void for taking down Battleships, which while is low, is decent enough that you should be able to break any BS rat tank and deal with the BS in a decent amount of time.

It's also capable of some PvP though not having a web does hurt it alot. It can take down some frigates and some cruisers and BCs too though taking down a BC solo with 300dps will likely take ages. Don't fight anything with scram/web that's faster than you, neut/drone boats, active tank cruiser/BC or kiters (unless you can catch em).

Also since you mentioned you have a bunch of Hawks you can port this fit over to the Hawk just use rockets and use a meta4 web in the extra midslot and an IFFA DCU + BCS II in the lowslots. You lose out on dps over the Harpy though. You can fit both the fits for around 40-50 million in at Jita prices.

However still using a Cruiser or BC will definitely be better for ratting alone simply because you get more dps, though you get less survivability because you'll be slower, but in blue null space this doesn't really matter.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-09-18 19:26:00 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
I used to use an Enyo to rat in Guristas space many years ago (MGAM-4 iirc). It worked but it was far from optimal. It takes an awful lot of time and small sized ammo to chew through a BS rat which really hurts your isk/hr and I couldn't even break the tanks on some of the high end BS rats. A moderately skilled BC or BS with meta 4 guns works much better.

So yes you can rat in null in an AF. But it is far from optimal.



You can push over 450dps without much effort from a blaster Enyo now, that's huge for an assault frig, trade off is range but hell, 450dps mark does not even require 100M sp skills to achieve with.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Yabba Addict
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-09-20 00:20:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Yabba Addict
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:



You can push over 450dps without much effort from a blaster Enyo now, that's huge for an assault frig, trade off is range but hell, 450dps mark does not even require 100M sp skills to achieve with.




1 Hob, 4 Neutrons loaded with void, 3 magstabs leaving little to no tank and max skills is 409 dps before heat and you call that not much effort??

Edit: And you know that you can max an enyo with probably less than 15 mil sp, right?
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-09-20 05:11:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Donbe Scurred
Yabba Addict wrote:

1 Hob, 4 Neutrons loaded with void, 3 magstabs leaving little to no tank and max skills is 409 dps before heat and you call that not much effort??

Edit: And you know that you can max an enyo with probably less than 15 mil sp, right?


Not sure what you are talking about, either you have never flown an Enyo or you have a very poor understanding of how to fit a ship. Maybe both?

I have really only flown the Enyo as far as AFs go, but would venture to say the "best" AF is the one that matches the damage profile of the space you are ratting in.

With SH-603 and SS-903 implants, this fit does 433 DPS (518 OH) , tanks 180+ against Serpentis and can also hold its own in PVP if the opportunity presents itself. Even with a SARII it tanks fine against Serpentis but the SAAR is nice to have for PVP. When ratting, the only time you take damage is when you are burning to close distance, manual piloting can help mitigate this damage. Once you get a tight orbit nothing will really hit you. Make sure you don't look away for too long as you can easily get stuck on a LCO and lose your speed which is a necessary part of the tank.

Void for BS, Caldari/Federation Navy Anti-matter for smaller rats.


[Enyo, Ratter]

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
[Empty High slot]
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I


Hobgoblin II x1

Edit: As the poster below mentions, switching to Fed Navy Mag Stabs and SH-605 / SS-905 will get you 489 DPS (560 OH) with the fit above.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#15 - 2013-09-20 05:54:55 UTC
Yabba Addict wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:



You can push over 450dps without much effort from a blaster Enyo now, that's huge for an assault frig, trade off is range but hell, 450dps mark does not even require 100M sp skills to achieve with.




1 Hob, 4 Neutrons loaded with void, 3 magstabs leaving little to no tank and max skills is 409 dps before heat and you call that not much effort??

Edit: And you know that you can max an enyo with probably less than 15 mil sp, right?


Effort would be Bling and Expensive implant :)
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-09-20 07:46:43 UTC
3 magstabs
neutrons
burst aerator II

^ ratting enyo, 1 slot tank (small rep) is enough with nosferatu and don't waste time on angel rats

Fitting issues use fit rigs until skills are up