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Should I have tried to kill him?
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Menkary Hardluck
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-09-15 20:40:20 UTC
I had my first experience with a grief player today. I was using a Myrmidon battlecruiser to grind level 3 missions and was finishing mopping up a room. I wasn't being pressured in any way. Along comes some guy in an Enyo assault frigate. He loots a cargo I had left behind after salvaging and flies towards me flagged. I ignore him. He requests a duel. I cancel out of it and ignore him. He quickly leaves.

This was all high sec, so what could he have done? I had an Omni-tanked battlecruiser (all resistances 50%+), a stable cap, a target painter, tons of ammo, and a decent number of drones to deploy (I have better drone skills than you might imagine). Even if he was more experienced than I was with millions upon millions of more skill points what could he have done? How could he have even hurt me? The only thing was I could not tackle him, so if we fought I guess he would have flown off.

The same thing probably occurred to him because he quickly left without continuing to loot. Yeah, I should have tried to kill him. Maybe I would have gotten lucky.
Cameron Zero
Sebiestor Tribe
#2 - 2013-09-15 21:00:01 UTC
One thing to remember is that bigger isn't always better. While I cannot say for sure how that fight would have turned out, I'd be willing to bet the Enyo pilot was more than confident in their abilities, and, if things had gone wrong, would likely have simply warped off (as you mentioned you had no point/scram).

There's also the possibility he had a friend in system with a logistics ship ready to warp in and start repping him. Sure, it would mean you get to shoot the logistics pilot, too, but good luck with that. :)

In the end, you probably made the right choice in not shooting him. He was probably prepared for anything you could throw at him, and likely had some extra tricks up his sleeve. ;)

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. …"
Veritaal
Veri-Tech Tax Haven
#3 - 2013-09-15 23:09:12 UTC
That's one of those situations where you have nothing to gain, and everything to lose.

At best, he's horribly fit and you wipe him out before he realizes he is in trouble.

Most likely, he is fit to fight, and knows how to fly under medium guns, which is shockingly easy in frigate hulls. So it'd be just your drones hitting him (hope you had T2 lights), with the added knowledge that you had no point, so he was never at any real risk anyway.

Let these guys pass. Don't be 'that guy' that gives the highsec griefer their daily lolmail.
Lilliana Stelles
#4 - 2013-09-15 23:30:53 UTC
Once the limited engagement started (even if you killed the enyo), he could still reship into something bigger and badder to kill you.

Not a forum alt. 
Sar Carstic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-09-15 23:42:25 UTC
I lost a Myrmidon to a Tristan in exactly the same situation, and the Tristan is nowhere near the ship an Enyo is. The guy would have been PVP kitted out to fight large ships which were PVE fit and I would say there is a 99% chance you would have lost. He wouldn't have duel requested if he thought there was any chance you could have beaten him. I chatted with the guy and he shared a kill with me where he took out a battleship in the same Tristan. It seems it is surprisingly easy to get under larger guns in a frigate.

You did exactly the right thing in the situation, something I learned the hard way but won't repeat.

Gentlemen you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-09-15 23:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Elena Thiesant
Menkary Hardluck wrote:
This was all high sec, so what could he have done? .


Killed you. Podded you too maybe.

I used to know a guy that did a lot of mission griefing. He was always posting solo battleship and battlecruiser kills. His favourite ship - Ishkur. (solo as in no logi, no other combat ships)

Enyos are nasty little ships. fast enough to get under a BC's guns, massive damage when blaster-fit, excellent tracking.

You were PvE fit. He'd have been PvP fit, with a point, maybe a neut or nos so you wouldn't have been cap-stable. He may have scanned you earlier in the evening to see what you had fitted. If he had, then he wouldn't have tried to get you to aggress if he wasn't fairly sure he could take you.

He would have warped out, not because he was scared of you, but because you declining the dual indiated you weren't going to fall for the trap. He wasn't there for your mission loot, he was there to kill you.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-09-16 03:03:46 UTC
What everyone else said. He likely would have taken one or two hits in the enyo to get a limited engagement. Since your mission boat wouldn't have a point, he would then leave, ship up (probably from the Orca he has sitting in a safe spot in space) and come back and kill you. Its the thing I hate about this game. There shouldn't be PvE fits and PvP fits. This game is all PvP and the fits should reflect that. But there are missions to "grind" as you say and unless you want it to take forever, or worse yet, have to bring a friend or two on an L3 mission, then you have to have a PvE fit and at best you'd get a draw from someone with a PvP ship because they'd just warp away if they thought they'd loose.

All that said... see my signature.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#8 - 2013-09-16 03:32:06 UTC
If your Myrm is competently fit you probably could've made him leave, but that's all you would have done. Unless you had some means of keeping him there and killing him, you have nothing really to gain. If, however, he wins somehow (which is certainly possible; you shouldn't underestimate AFs, especially if you're PVE-fit), you're out a battlecruiser.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#9 - 2013-09-16 06:04:50 UTC
Like the others - he would have killed you.

Props for coming and asking about it though. Think about how to get some PvP experience (lowsec faction warfare for this plus isk). Then turn the tables with a PvP fit next time someone thinks you are another mission bear.

Do not try this first in a battleship. You really want experience with some cheap ships first. PvP is nothing like PvE.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-09-16 20:08:56 UTC
Menkary Hardluck wrote:
and flies towards me flagged.


how close did he get before requesting the duel?
Jane Schereau
#11 - 2013-09-16 21:05:45 UTC
I will second the comments that he was likely ready for a fight. As an Enyo pilot myself, I will say taking down a PvE fit cruiser or BC is not exactly difficult. That said, I am wary of drone boats, since I will not be able to negate all their damage by flying under their guns. It is doable still. I've no doubt that if he was a competent pilot, he could have taken you down.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-09-17 05:03:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaric Faelen
Just ignore all duel requests. You can set them to auto-reject I believe.

Dueling is not PvP in any meaningful sense. So participating is absolutely pointless. All you might (and very likely would not have) accomplished was getting a KM. At the risk of losing a ship you make isk in, and if you are new enough to need to ask...is probably not a ship you can afford to lose.

Remember, HE was ready to PvP, you were ready to PvE....he'd also know what you are running for a rat-specific tank and would just load around that and tank whatever you were using on the rats. Without a point, you couldn't have kept him on field anyway and he could leave at will. On the other hand, he could hold you there and simply let the rats kill you.

Dueling is the same useless mechanic in Eve that it is in any other theme park MMO like WoW...useless to the actual game, in no way represents actual PvP, and is largely the realm of newbs and griefers preying on them. Good job, CCP......Roll

If you want to PvP, then just do it. Pretend PvP isn't going to benefit you at all, it's nothing like how a fight happens in low or null sec. Join a pirate corp, RvB, FW, or any of the plethora of corps that PvP as a group. Because if you didn't know he was going to land before he even loaded grid, if you didn't know if he had corp-mates in system but off grid.....you have much to learn about the D-Scan and PvP in general, grasshopper.
Celthon Drakken
#13 - 2013-09-17 10:23:55 UTC
Cameron Zero wrote:
...

There's also the possibility he had a friend in system with a logistics ship ready to warp in and start repping him. Sure, it would mean you get to shoot the logistics pilot, too, but good luck with that. :)

...



What does it mean to have another ship/pilot "repping him"?

Thank you.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-09-17 10:41:17 UTC
Celthon Drakken wrote:
Cameron Zero wrote:
...

There's also the possibility he had a friend in system with a logistics ship ready to warp in and start repping him. Sure, it would mean you get to shoot the logistics pilot, too, but good luck with that. :)

...



What does it mean to have another ship/pilot "repping him"?


Remote repair. So another ship remotely repairing either his shields or his armour. Ships that specialise in that are called 'Logistics' ships.
Celthon Drakken
#15 - 2013-09-17 10:49:34 UTC
Thank you for the reply/information.
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#16 - 2013-09-17 10:51:30 UTC
Celthon Drakken wrote:
Cameron Zero wrote:
...

There's also the possibility he had a friend in system with a logistics ship ready to warp in and start repping him. Sure, it would mean you get to shoot the logistics pilot, too, but good luck with that. :)

...



What does it mean to have another ship/pilot "repping him"?

Thank you.



The Eve Online equivalent to a "Priest" in other MMORGs

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Disastro
Wrecking Shots
#17 - 2013-09-17 11:41:00 UTC
Menkary Hardluck wrote:
I had my first experience with a grief player today. I was using a Myrmidon battlecruiser to grind level 3 missions and was finishing mopping up a room. I wasn't being pressured in any way. Along comes some guy in an Enyo assault frigate. He loots a cargo I had left behind after salvaging and flies towards me flagged. I ignore him. He requests a duel. I cancel out of it and ignore him. He quickly leaves.

This was all high sec, so what could he have done? I had an Omni-tanked battlecruiser (all resistances 50%+), a stable cap, a target painter, tons of ammo, and a decent number of drones to deploy (I have better drone skills than you might imagine). Even if he was more experienced than I was with millions upon millions of more skill points what could he have done? How could he have even hurt me? The only thing was I could not tackle him, so if we fought I guess he would have flown off.

The same thing probably occurred to him because he quickly left without continuing to loot. Yeah, I should have tried to kill him. Maybe I would have gotten lucky.


Never, ever, ever engage any griefer dude with your mission boat. Your mission ship is not a PVP ship. It is your money maker. Without a warp disruptor/scram on it the best you could hope to accomplish would be to drive him away from you for a few minutes. Then he would warp back in with something much bigger and you can be sure he will have a scram fit on his.

T2 assault frigates can defeat something much larger. This is especially true if he brings someone in to give him remote reps. Most likely he would.

The reason he was looking to get you to shoot is that he knew quite well that you were unlikely to be able to kill him.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-09-17 14:53:00 UTC
Menkary Hardluck wrote:
I had my first experience with a grief player today. I was using a Myrmidon battlecruiser to grind level 3 missions and was finishing mopping up a room. I wasn't being pressured in any way. Along comes some guy in an Enyo assault frigate. He loots a cargo I had left behind after salvaging and flies towards me flagged. I ignore him. He requests a duel. I cancel out of it and ignore him. He quickly leaves.

This was all high sec, so what could he have done? I had an Omni-tanked battlecruiser (all resistances 50%+), a stable cap, a target painter, tons of ammo, and a decent number of drones to deploy (I have better drone skills than you might imagine). Even if he was more experienced than I was with millions upon millions of more skill points what could he have done? How could he have even hurt me? The only thing was I could not tackle him, so if we fought I guess he would have flown off.

The same thing probably occurred to him because he quickly left without continuing to loot. Yeah, I should have tried to kill him. Maybe I would have gotten lucky.


Ahhhh, memories. ::sniff::

Mission run with a pvp fit and you are eventually guaranteed some tranny-surprise lolz. A battlecruiser with a Medium energy neutralizer, scram, dual-webs, light blasters or autocannons and Warrior II's as the cherry on top are win and a complete day-ruiner. Just be sure to wait until he gets close and activate the scram, dual-webs and neut first; then guns and drones. :)

p.s.
You don't have to accept a duel, as soon as someone goes suspect stealing your stuff you are free to shoot, and its still a limited engagement -- his buddies cannot aggress you.

Would you like to know more?
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#19 - 2013-09-17 15:17:01 UTC
This is one of the reasons i often use PvP fits for ratting and missions. Man they panic when they get pointed......... Unfortunately they have been able to burn away and I haven't got a kill that way yet. But had one or two of these guys in structure before they got away. Got some awesome rage in local about what an idiot i must be ratting with a point.

Its almost always something small like a AF or faction frigate. Hoping you have never done PvP and hence don't really know that a PvP fit is vastly different etc. Or that a BC will find it hard to hit a fast frigate for example. They want you to see the flashy "shoot me" in the overview and hope you take the bait. Often these are competent pilots that will be able to get under your guns 9 times out of 10.

Without a point there is no point. You can only lose. So good call.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-09-17 16:45:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
[Myrm Of Flip Bait]

[High]
Imperial Navy Medium Energy Neutralizer
Imperial Navy Medium Energy Neutralizer
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II

[Mid]
True Sansha Warp Scrambler
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
100MN Afterburner II

[Low]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Controll II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Reactor Control Unit

[Rigs]
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Egress Port Maximizer II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II

[Drones]
Warrior II's
Hammerhead II's
EC-600 b!tch drones

[Implants]
Slave Set
MR-705
SS-905

- Scram keeps him from warping away, also shuts down his MWD unlike a disruptor :)
- 3 Fed Navy Web's (on top of scram) ensure he moves like a fly stuck in amber...
- Your 100mn AB cannot be turned off by a scram, so you can still burn :)
- Will almost insta-cap out a Frigate or AF, and cap out up to a Cruiser in 1 minute or so...
- EC-600's just in case, although with a 100mn and 3 webs you should be able to pull range if need be :)

Wait till he gets close, then scram + 3x webs + 1 neut, followed by guns and second neut 6 seconds after the first, so you have one of each firing every 6 seconds and keeping him perma-capped. Then drop Warrior II's on him.

If he launches drones (i.e. Ishkur) kill those first. Set your drones 'engage target' command to a hotkey, so you can sick both your guns and drones quickly on his drones. Don't let him kill your drones, cap him out first while using fast Warrior II's first, then switch to Hammer's for the coup de grace'

You can try to minimize your damage by staying out of his blaster 'Void s' ammo range by orbitting at 5km and shooting 'Null s' ammo. He will probably have null also, but your tank and overall DPS w/ drones will win the day easily -- especially with his guns & active repper capped out :)

Would you like to know more?
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