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Artillery Mission MJD Drone Boat (Dominix). Looking for advice.

Author
Mark Ettier
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-09-16 01:00:42 UTC
I am in the process of grinding standings (I absolutely hate missions... wish I could buy the standings), and I would like to use an artillery drone boat to grind through the faction standings.

My current set up: (Guristas opponents)

[Rigs]
Large Ancillary current Router I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I

[High]
1400 Howizter Artillery II x3
Drone Link Augmentor II x3

[Mid]
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link x2
Medium Capacitor Booster II (800 cap booster charges)
Large Micro Jump Drive
Sensor Booster II (Targeting Range Script)

[Low]
Drone Damage Amplifier II x4
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II

'short' range DPS: 923 @ 67.6km (Garde IIs + Republic EMP L)
'long' range DPS: 774 @ 130km (Bouncer IIs + Tremor L)

I am not practiced at mission-ing, and the ship always 'feels' weak... but that could very well be my inexperience.
I Warp in, MJD if needed to get range, and pluck away. Range of the NPC missle boats does moderate damage, and I have to warp out on occasion.

0. Assume Guristas rats.
1. I would like to swap out Capacitor Booster for an afterburner, but am uncertain if this is really wise for this fitting.
2. I would like to squeeze out some more DPS, but I am uncertain where / how
3. I realize that Rails can give me more DPS, but the fits I have seen so far cannot do it at 130km, and I don't really want to 'wait' for the NPC boats to hit me for awhile before getting in range. 4-6 BS starting in at range can hurt this weaker boat if I wait for a Sub-100km setup (drone + Rails)

For what I'm grinding, assume Guristas rats. (Kinertic / Thermal dmg applied to ship)

Warden (Kin Dmg) is 169 / 30 optimal / falloff; which is why I used Bouncer for distance (Expl dmg, 135 / 42).

Any advice would be appreciated.
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#2 - 2013-09-16 01:46:47 UTC
Guristas are very hard to out range as the BS sized rats tend to be able to reach 100km easily, I would advise you go for a regular tank n gank fit and slap on a prop mod for the missions where you need to travel from gate to gate. Rails tend to be easier to fit and give better performance for missions, something like this:

[Dominix, L4 Cap Booster]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Drone Link Augmentor II
350mm Railgun II, Spike L
350mm Railgun II, Spike L
350mm Railgun II, Spike L
350mm Railgun II, Spike L
350mm Railgun II, Spike L

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5
Warrior II x5

Optimized for 84km, everything operates at optimal including Gardes and you deal 880 dps with Gardes + Spike and up to 970dps close range with antimatter. The tank is plenty and should hold against Guristas easily as long as you drop enemies fast enough. If you need to gatecrawl switch the painter for a prop mod of choice.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#3 - 2013-09-16 02:58:54 UTC
Similar setup used for Angel's Anoms, could probably be modified for your purposes. The hull has no bonuses for Turrets so use what you want, but using Projectiles means less cap usage. The Hull has no Tanking bonus and the base HP is actually slightly in favour of Shields, so may as well fit for that. The hull has a bonus for drone tracking (nearly 1.5 that of a T2 Omnidirectional Tracking Link) so no real need to fit them if you have decent drone skills. How ever you can fit them if required.

There is enough fitting to fit T2 1400mm instead of the Meta 4, however I don't have the skills to fit them at the current time.

Main Stats, 53K EHP, 232 Cap Stable Tank, 750 dps (700dps from the Sentries) I have Back up Heavies etc for if the ships manage to get too close, heavies can even take out Elite frigs very easily thanks to the Hull bonuses. I still haven't had a need to use the Mediums or Lights on the fit, but there just in case.

[Dominix, Jump Out - Current]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Booster II

1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Nuclear L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Nuclear L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Nuclear L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Nuclear L
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Bouncer II x5
Berserker II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5

Ammo in the hold, both Nuclear(for Long Range Exp Damage) and Fusion(Short Range Exp Damage)

Abviously change the Ammo Types and Drone types to match the mission you are running :P
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#4 - 2013-09-16 07:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Bouncers are poor for gurista

For non elite gurista, garde IIs actually kill them quickest. Wardens are the second best drone, even with the lower paper dps than bouncers.

IMO the 3x arty + grid rid, is worse than 4x425mm + drone control rig for any circumstances, and for gurista particularly. Spike L easily reaches 130km optimal anyway.

There is no particular need to shoot 130km. You can loose 1 salvo to aggro NPCs at locking range, and then you can shoot things that are closer. Even gurista will close from 130km, and you can do your MJDs to be less than 100km away from rats.

the sentry damage rig is of little value on a ship with 4x DDA II, you are giving up close to 15% tank with a second aux nano, for a module with a big fitting penalty offering maybe 3% dps to drones only after stacking penalties.
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
#5 - 2013-09-16 09:49:20 UTC
I love the Spike L and Sentry combo as well, and find the hybrid bonuses on the Navy Domi works well. I also like to use the shield Domi when using guns since you can use those extra LS spots for field stabilizers and tracking enhancers, I believe this is why you will find a higher ratio of shield tanks on the sniper Dominix (from my limited experience) compared to pure drone based ones. Also I personally really hate stacking penalties and would rather have 2-3 of each of these LS modules instead of 4+ of a single type.
Mark Ettier
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-09-16 11:44:11 UTC
My hybrid gun skills are horrible (maybe have M T1 hybrid??), but swapping to a T2 shield tank isn't an issue. I see that the sentry rig isn't really assisting the situation, and may need to play with a Navy Domi shield tank (for the extra mid slot).

-How does the fall off pentalties work with sentries?
-Is incoming DPS from L4s an issue for those fits without a MJD? I don't belive my current fit could handle the DPS.

Epithal
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-09-16 11:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Epithal
The MJD domi is a job of min-maxing your drone optimal (garde), drone control range and turret optimal to match your lock range.

You have several "unnecessary" mods in there. To tank you at tops need 3 mods: LAR and 2 hardeners. No capmods are require in practise. Rigs should be range focused.

Drone rigs bring CPU issues with them, but being able to use Gardes at 100km optimal is worth it. Here's a starting point for eft, tailor to your skills:

High:
3 guns / range ammo
3 drone links (130km should be minimum control range with mjd)

Mid:
3 FN omnidir
MJD
Sebo/range

Lows:
4 DDA
2 kinetic hardener, can use CPU version
LAR

Rigs:
2 drone scope (100km garde)
1 CPU rig (this could be stretching CPU too much, if so use a co-processor and swap kin hardener to rig)

Align your MJD to 110-130km range from rats.

The point of this fit is to enable MJD gardes which rock against guristas and serpentis. You can use wardens vs guristas too, they are just as good on the high end be resists. However this makes shorter work of serpentis and mercenary missions.
Mark Ettier
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-09-16 21:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Ettier
Epithal,

Having finally had the time to plug into EFT, I see the optimal / falloff of Gardes (with 2x Drone Scope IIs and Lvl 5s) @ 85 / 12. Am I missing something, or are you counting the Falloff with the 100km Garde Range?

Dato, I could only use your fit with all L5 and a CPU implant. Dropping the Cap Booster to a Medium dropped the CPU to use without implants.

DPS values I'm seeing from EFT (with garde optimal ranges & faction ammos)
Epithal: 85km / 880
Caldari5: 42km / 930 (758 @ 85 with bouncers)
Dato: 67.6km / 813
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#9 - 2013-09-17 02:17:01 UTC
The scope rigs are broken. at some point someone will tell CCP that they aren't properly stacking penalised and then that will be fixed and those people will have to rerig. (they are probably cheap rigs so no real drama there).

I've always used a medium cap booster on a dominix, its usually too tight on grid to fit a large, and you are never fighting close enough to need the burst cap / reps or the extra 800s.
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#10 - 2013-09-17 03:34:39 UTC
Mark Ettier wrote:


Dato, I could only use your fit with all L5 and a CPU implant. Dropping the Cap Booster to a Medium dropped the CPU to use without implants.

Dato: 67.6km / 813


Yeah the fit is tight on CPU, if I'm not mistaken it should just fit with all V skills, could be mistaken, but it should only be a very small amount of extra CPU needed. The skills for perfect CPU you should already have (except for Drone Rigging V).

A great way to get around this is the slot 10 implant Weapon Upgrades, it's dirt cheap and doesn't take up any important implant slots. Alternative ways to get around CPU is to faction the Omnis (which improves your performance as well and is relatively cheap), faction the hardeners, regular slot 6 cpu implant, or as you said, downgrade the capacitor booster. However I would advise against downgrading the booster as you have the PG to fit a Heavy booster and it gives you significantly more burst tank if you mess something up and get more aggro than intended.

The optimal should be around 80km (at work so no EFT to check) not 67, there must be something lacking in your skills or the way you fit it.
Epithal
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-09-17 08:23:27 UTC
Mark Ettier wrote:
Epithal,

Having finally had the time to plug into EFT, I see the optimal / falloff of Gardes (with 2x Drone Scope IIs and Lvl 5s) @ 85 / 12. Am I missing something, or are you counting the Falloff with the 100km Garde Range?

Dato, I could only use your fit with all L5 and a CPU implant. Dropping the Cap Booster to a Medium dropped the CPU to use without implants.

DPS values I'm seeing from EFT (with garde optimal ranges & faction ammos)
Epithal: 85km / 880
Caldari5: 42km / 930 (758 @ 85 with bouncers)
Dato: 67.6km / 813


EFT does not recognise the stacking glitch, try pyfa or ingame.
Mark Ettier
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-09-17 12:16:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Ettier
For both the Dato and Epithal fits, pyfa showed the proposed values. (Garde II Range was reduced in both instances).

EFT may be applying the stacking penalty that was mentioned. I have not downloaded / used the EFT update for Odessy 1.1 that went up today. The pyfa version I used is 1.1.16 - Odyssey 1.1
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#13 - 2013-09-17 12:37:02 UTC
EFT may be calculating it with stacking penalties however in-game the Drone Scope Chips still do not give stacking penalty.