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is Hybrid Balancing for Winter expansion finished?
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Imawuss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-11-15 03:09:03 UTC
Just curious if the hybrid balance changes have been finalized for the winter expansion?
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#2 - 2011-11-15 03:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
probably.

the measures taken for rails were exactly what was needed, and the indirect measures taken for blasters (speed and agility) were exactly what blaster boats needed. taking it much father is risky and likely to make things a little OP.

I mean, just fooling around on the test server, a 1600mm plated thorax moves almost like a shield tanked one does on live. The max velocity is certainly nearly identical.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#3 - 2011-11-15 03:53:02 UTC
and blaster boats still suck. the problem is we need some sort of viable way to passive armor tank that isn't buffer (because buffer slows the boats)

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#4 - 2011-11-15 03:54:34 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
probably.

the measures taken for rails were exactly what was needed, and the indirect measures taken for blasters (speed and agility) were exactly what blaster boats needed. taking it much father is risky and likely to make things a little OP.

I mean, just fooling around on the test server, a 1600mm plated thorax moves almost like a shield tanked one does on live. The max velocity is certainly nearly identical.


you are an ass

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Imawuss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-11-15 04:20:24 UTC
I'm hoping they're not, otherwise I'll still be fitting AC's on my myrm. As for rails i still dont see a situation where they outperform the other turrets, except at extreme ranges that are not really useful.

On another note really looking forward to that Tornado!Twisted wish i could say the same for the talosUgh
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#6 - 2011-11-15 04:21:34 UTC
Denidil wrote:
and blaster boats still suck. the problem is we need some sort of viable way to passive armor tank that isn't buffer (because buffer slows the boats)


they specifically addressed this.
A'Brantox Foson
A'Brantox Foson Corporation
#7 - 2011-11-15 04:23:24 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Denidil wrote:
and blaster boats still suck. the problem is we need some sort of viable way to passive armor tank that isn't buffer (because buffer slows the boats)


they specifically addressed this.

putting rails and blasters into EFT now, is nearly acceptable, bar a few caldari and 250mm rail fits.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#8 - 2011-11-15 04:27:55 UTC
A'Brantox Foson wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Denidil wrote:
and blaster boats still suck. the problem is we need some sort of viable way to passive armor tank that isn't buffer (because buffer slows the boats)


they specifically addressed this.

putting rails and blasters into EFT now, is nearly acceptable, bar a few caldari and 250mm rail fits.


Its a real joy to play with gallente blaster boats, because they move like untanked boats on live and finally got past the horrendous CPU and PG issues - you can actually fit gallente boats as if they were minnie boats now, no crippling sacrifices.
Foofad
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-11-15 04:32:07 UTC
Caldari hybrid boats/rails still aren't up to snuff - they don't fill any needed roles in the meta that other weapons don't do better at. They're certainly better than they were, but not by enough to actually make them preferable in any specific cases over other systems.
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#10 - 2011-11-15 04:34:55 UTC
The problem is that Projectiles and Hybrid stats should be swapped.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-11-15 04:41:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
Akirei Scytale wrote:
probably.

the measures taken for rails were exactly what was needed, and the indirect measures taken for blasters (speed and agility) were exactly what blaster boats needed. taking it much father is risky and likely to make things a little OP.

I mean, just fooling around on the test server, a 1600mm plated thorax moves almost like a shield tanked one does on live. The max velocity is certainly nearly identical.


3/10

this idiot is trolling hard
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#12 - 2011-11-15 05:09:46 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:

3/10

this idiot is trolling hard


have you actually tried, you know, fitting and flying them?
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-11-15 05:15:39 UTC
[Brutix, Ion reps]

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I


Warrior II x5



467dps
444hp/s omni

An EANM is probably interchangeable with magstabs. Similarly, the rigs.

[Cyclone, Solo active]

'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Fulmination Assault Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Fulmination Assault Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Fulmination Assault Missile
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large Clarity Ward Booster I
Invulnerability Field II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Warp Scrambler II

Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x5




589dps
200hp/s omni


Brutix total: 911
Cyclone total: 789

Yes, I know you probably can't just add them together, the numbers are incomparable, and that Cyclone fit is terrible, but \o/

FAKE EDIT:
Hmm... By replacing an EANM with a magstab I get 555dps and 367hp/s!
That's arguably better than the Cyclone!
Hooray!

FAKE EDIT 2:
Cyclone is ~300m/s faster, has slightly better damage projection is can gain insanely from blue pills + Crystals, so I'd say things are pretty balanced in this respect.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2011-11-15 05:16:34 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:

3/10

this idiot is trolling hard


have you actually tried, you know, fitting and flying them?



i played around with the Deimos and it's pathetic. 300dps with the best possible fit and ****** tank, can hardly scratch anything past 30km. dont even think about trying to fit 250mm's. do you have any idea how hard a cane/cynabal/vaga laughs at this?

blaster boats are in the EXACT SAME spot. minor tracking buff, minor damage buff, a decent agility buff on the ships but theyre still too slow and kited by the Minmatard AC platforms.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#15 - 2011-11-15 05:19:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Hungry Eyes wrote:

i played around with the Deimos and it's pathetic. 300dps with the best possible fit and ****** tank, can hardly scratch anything past 30km. dont even think about trying to fit 250mm's. do you have any idea how hard a cane/cynabal/vaga laughs at this?


Hungry Eyes wrote:

i played around with the Deimos and it's pathetic. 300dps with the best possible fit and ****** tank, can hardly scratch anything past 30km. dont even think about trying to fit 250mm's


Hungry Eyes wrote:

Deimos
300dps
250mm's


Hungry Eyes wrote:

250mm's


I think I found your problem.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2011-11-15 05:24:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
0/10. troll thread.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#17 - 2011-11-15 05:31:50 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
0/10. troll thread.


my pve deimos (yes, pve deimos) outperforms that fit with blasters on live. god forbid you ran into my pvp deimos post patch.
Imawuss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-11-15 06:42:16 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
0/10. troll thread.

actually was curious if they were finished or not.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#19 - 2011-11-15 06:43:45 UTC
Imawuss wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
0/10. troll thread.

actually was curious if they were finished or not.


I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm trolling him, not you.
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-11-15 07:06:19 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Imawuss wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
0/10. troll thread.

actually was curious if they were finished or not.


I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm trolling him, not you.


I guess you are serious, but you are wrong. Just because they are better than before, they are not fixed.

If you think about the combat roles of the Gallente close combat and sniping, and you would want to optimize anyone for this roles, how would you design him?

A cap-free weapon to work in a combat environment exclusively within the range of nos/neut.
The fastest and most agile ships to close in to be able to do your damage.
multiple damage types to make sure your hits count once you finally can begin applying damage.
And since you likely get shot at while you are getting in range, you might want some flexibility in your tank fitting options to adapt better to the expected situation and improve your survival chances.

for the sniping huge alpha, multiple damage types and agile ships because you can´t get many shots off before someone is coming for you and you need to change position. And this is practically how sniping is defined: high damage, low rate of fire, a relatively fast and agile unit.

Who did I just describe? Not the Gallente, thats for sure.
And since the Gallente are not allowed to copy another race, they are inevitably gimped, because their tactics require that stuff to actually work well.

Which does make me want to ask the devs: If you wanted the Gallente deploy the close-range and sniping tactics, how come another race ends up optimized and perfectly suited for it?

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
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