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Balancing Feedback: Tier3 Battlecruisers

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Maksim Cammeren
Taxless Corp
#481 - 2011-11-15 01:08:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Maksim Cammeren
Stealing someone else's dps graph. Currently on SiSi, T3 BC's and a muninn, fitted to hit at 110km, drone dps not included:

http://mitglied.multimania.de/roemern/EVE/Ti3BC110km2.gif

blue - tornado // red - oracle // green - talos // yellow - naga // (purple - muninn)

(I don't have the targets size/transverse that was used, but I can look it up if someone really cares).
Ghads Ghost
Katana Intergration Network
#482 - 2011-11-15 01:09:53 UTC
Shiroi Okami wrote:
The new naga is much, much better than the split bonus bullshit it had before. Torps are highly limited in their usefulness, whereas now we have a shield tanked gunboat which can wreck people with blasters and do awesome damage at mid to long range with rails. All of you mission running drake pilots who wanted the naga simply because it would make it easier than your drake to run l4s, GTFO. The tier 3s were designed as pvp ships and they should stay that way.




LOL I havent flown a Drake in a year I fly a Rattlesnake for Level 4's the Naga seemed to be a fun alternative with Sevenfolds fitting guess we will never know...

FOr those that like PVP have fun... just isnt what I come to Eve to do............

But why waste a ship just for PVP? Eve fitters are an inventive crew they will ALWAYS find to use a ship for what it isnt intended to do... looks like in this case another sue was found... until this nerf from CCP
Bomberlocks
Bombercorp
#483 - 2011-11-15 01:17:39 UTC
Ghads Ghost wrote:
Shiroi Okami wrote:
The new naga is much, much better than the split bonus bullshit it had before. Torps are highly limited in their usefulness, whereas now we have a shield tanked gunboat which can wreck people with blasters and do awesome damage at mid to long range with rails. All of you mission running drake pilots who wanted the naga simply because it would make it easier than your drake to run l4s, GTFO. The tier 3s were designed as pvp ships and they should stay that way.




LOL I havent flown a Drake in a year I fly a Rattlesnake for Level 4's the Naga seemed to be a fun alternative with Sevenfolds fitting guess we will never know...

FOr those that like PVP have fun... just isnt what I come to Eve to do............

But why waste a ship just for PVP? Eve fitters are an inventive crew they will ALWAYS find to use a ship for what it isnt intended to do... looks like in this case another sue was found... until this nerf from CCP

Being able to do 500dps damage beyond the range of all NPC ships except missile ships makes it a good PVE ship.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#484 - 2011-11-15 01:20:09 UTC
Sevenfold Sins wrote:
Here is an extreamly effective fit for the Naga before this patch, it was effective in both lv3 and lv4 missions and would of been effective as a pvp boat:

Highs:
8 arbalest heavy missile launchers

Mediums:
3 Invulnerability Field II
1 Y-S8 Hydrocarbon Afterburners
2 Large F-S9 Regolith shield induction

Lows:
1 Co-Processor II
2 Ballistic control system II

Rigs:
3 Medium core defence field extender I



Good God. Shocked

Is there a way to stop carebears and other idiots from posting in this thread?
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#485 - 2011-11-15 01:21:46 UTC
The Naga is more or less fixed by this change imo - Good Range, Good DPS at Range, Classic Caldari.

Should be ported over to more rail boats with lows moved to the mids..

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Sevenfold Sins
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#486 - 2011-11-15 01:24:40 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Sevenfold Sins wrote:
Here is an extreamly effective fit for the Naga before this patch, it was effective in both lv3 and lv4 missions and would of been effective as a pvp boat:

Highs:
8 arbalest heavy missile launchers

Mediums:
3 Invulnerability Field II
1 Y-S8 Hydrocarbon Afterburners
2 Large F-S9 Regolith shield induction

Lows:
1 Co-Processor II
2 Ballistic control system II

Rigs:
3 Medium core defence field extender I



Good God. Shocked

Is there a way to stop carebears and other idiots from posting in this thread?


Ignore the fact that I am a pvp pilot, I was just interested in figuring out a way to make the ship useful in its previous form and I succeed. I tested on missions simply because I didnt feel like dealing with the idiots around the main combat sites and didnt happen to have a pilot to shoot at available. It also wouldnt be horrible in pvp
Miriiah
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#487 - 2011-11-15 01:29:29 UTC
Ghads Ghost wrote:
Sevenfold Sins wrote:
Here is an extreamly effective fit for the Naga before this patch, it was effective in both lv3 and lv4 missions and would of been effective as a pvp boat:

Highs:
8 arbalest heavy missile launchers

Mediums:
3 Invulnerability Field II
1 Y-S8 Hydrocarbon Afterburners
2 Large F-S9 Regolith shield induction

Lows:
1 Co-Processor II
2 Ballistic control system II

Rigs:
3 Medium core defence field extender I

Between its speed (isnt bad as a mission boat) and the fact that you can stagger the higher range launchers to constantly have missiles in space means that it had higher actual dps then the other caldari battlecruisers, 13k shield hp, 50% and up resists, and it fit nicely on the ship itself.

Mission Rating:

Lv4: The scarlet pirate (New mission for me, would rank around worlds collide level in difficulty against most mission fits) and should be able to handle most if not all combat lv4 missions

Lv3: Completed every lv3 thrown at the fit without blinking


All in all this ship can be extreamly effective when fitted correctly, it handles mission rats battlecruisers and lower faster then drones, doesnt have anywhere near as many range limitations as the pre-existing torp naga, could be effective in pvp with afew slight tweaks as the constant damage limits any sort of tank pulsing, and actually can have the tank to back it up.

So thanks CCP, you just turned a ship with great potential into one of the long line of useless caldari railgun platforms.






AS a mission runner I wasnt to happy with the new ships... they seemed useless unless you wanted to do PVP which I didn't...now I see this fit and it seemed that a silk purse was made out of a sows ear...but now with launchers gone completly this is just a waste of materials ...sorry CCP this Nage is now a fail fit
A drake does a better job
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#488 - 2011-11-15 01:29:31 UTC
Sevenfold Sins wrote:


Ignore the fact that I am a pvp pilot, I was just interested in figuring out a way to make the ship useful in its previous form and I succeed. I tested on missions simply because I didnt feel like dealing with the idiots around the main combat sites and didnt happen to have a pilot to shoot at available. It also wouldnt be horrible in pvp


You suceeded in giving me eye cancer. That fit is an more expensive and vastly inferior Drake.
Bomberlocks
Bombercorp
#489 - 2011-11-15 01:34:07 UTC
Ytterbium: I would like to ask you if you have considered the practical effect of the Tier 3 BCs in game. Could you possibly clarify your thinking (if you did so) as to how these ships will affect the use of current Battlecruisers. From what I see, they should make a range of other ships obsolete in game: Long range BCs will be totally outclassed by these ships as will sniper HACs, and these ships, hunting in gangs, will make the idea of tackling them with smaller ships difficult, especially if they fit webs.

TL;DR the Tier3 BCs seem to be even more effective against smaller ships than they are against BS and Capitals.

Was that your intention? Could you clarify, please?
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#490 - 2011-11-15 02:12:56 UTC
Sevenfold Sins wrote:
Here is an extreamly effective fit for the Naga before this patch, it was effective in both lv3 and lv4 missions and would of been effective as a pvp boat:

Highs:
8 arbalest heavy missile launchers

Mediums:
3 Invulnerability Field II
1 Y-S8 Hydrocarbon Afterburners
2 Large F-S9 Regolith shield induction

Lows:
1 Co-Processor II
2 Ballistic control system II

Rigs:
3 Medium core defence field extender I



So basically, you want to spend more than a drake, while getting less a drake?
Foofad
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#491 - 2011-11-15 03:18:11 UTC
I'm digging the changes to the Naga. I just wish for a tiny bit more DPS (or tracking) to make me actually genuinely want to fight at railgun ranges as opposed to just jumping into a Hurricane like everyone else.
Debir Achen
Makiriemi Holdings
#492 - 2011-11-15 03:19:34 UTC
Maksim Cammeren wrote:
Stealing someone else's dps graph. Currently on SiSi, T3 BC's and a muninn, fitted to hit at 110km, drone dps not included:

http://mitglied.multimania.de/roemern/EVE/Ti3BC110km2.gif

blue - tornado // red - oracle // green - talos // yellow - naga // (purple - muninn)

(I don't have the targets size/transverse that was used, but I can look it up if someone really cares).
From the displayed formulas:
target size = 200
target transversal = 200

The Munin has trouble competing because it achieves near-perfect tracking from 40km, while the BCs never quite reach that point before they are into falloff (the Talos and oracle get close). The munin will maintain its damage values against smaller, faster targets a lot better than the BCs will.

(comment: graph uses the "traditional" colours, but only the Talos matches the race)

Are those numbers at "All V", "All 0", or somewhere in between? What sort of fitting?

Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature?
Phantomania
Lonely Trek
#493 - 2011-11-15 03:35:43 UTC


I think we'remissing the point here!

In my case, like alot of other Missile focused Pilots, I am losing out on a NEW TOY from CCP!

Just like when all those PvP pilots whine when CCP decide to give us an Industrial ship for Christmas.

All the old missile boats have been spun and fitted to death, whats more boring than a Drake!

I wonder how many would have complained if CCP had announce the Tier3 BCs would all be "Heavy Stealtth Bombers" and JUST had Torps on all of them???

The Naga could have been fixed to have missiles, Torps or Cruise!

Its just the Hybrid Pilots who love CCPs idea as they have a choice of 2 new ships!

Cry
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#494 - 2011-11-15 04:03:35 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
The Naga is more or less fixed by this change imo - Good Range, Good DPS at Range, Classic Caldari.

Should be ported over to more rail boats with lows moved to the mids..



i dunno i would have rather seen a rate of fire bonus over a damage bonus...

but yeah i am happy with the general direction...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#495 - 2011-11-15 04:24:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Caius Sivaris
QuantumTunnel wrote:
no missiles on naga? guess what you'll never see naga fleets. Most caldari are useless ratting whores and do not have hyrbid turrets skills let alone t2 large hybrids. Naga isn't worth it now.

Naga with torps would have been a great anti-BS sniper fleet setup.


FYP. Can't do anything for you if if you don't train your own race weapon systems.


Sevenfold Sins wrote:
Here is an extreamly effective fit for the Naga before this patch, it was effective in both lv3 and lv4 missions and would of been effective as a pvp boat:

Highs:
8 arbalest heavy missile launchers


You know a Drake was better on all counts than that brain tumor induced fit right?
Foofad
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#496 - 2011-11-15 04:29:44 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
The Naga is more or less fixed by this change imo - Good Range, Good DPS at Range, Classic Caldari.

Should be ported over to more rail boats with lows moved to the mids..



i dunno i would have rather seen a rate of fire bonus over a damage bonus...

but yeah i am happy with the general direction...


Idk, higher ROF means more cap drain, and I prefer to hold onto as much cap as possible.
Takon Orlani
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#497 - 2011-11-15 04:35:25 UTC
Ghads Ghost wrote:
Shiroi Okami wrote:
The new naga is much, much better than the split bonus bullshit it had before. Torps are highly limited in their usefulness, whereas now we have a shield tanked gunboat which can wreck people with blasters and do awesome damage at mid to long range with rails. All of you mission running drake pilots who wanted the naga simply because it would make it easier than your drake to run l4s, GTFO. The tier 3s were designed as pvp ships and they should stay that way.




LOL I havent flown a Drake in a year I fly a Rattlesnake for Level 4's the Naga seemed to be a fun alternative with Sevenfolds fitting guess we will never know...

FOr those that like PVP have fun... just isnt what I come to Eve to do............

But why waste a ship just for PVP? Eve fitters are an inventive crew they will ALWAYS find to use a ship for what it isnt intended to do... looks like in this case another sue was found... until this nerf from CCP

You pure pve people have something wrong with your heads, and you think everything should cater to you. Well this time its the violent people who get some love. Deal with it. B)

Ps if i catch anyone pve in a new bc I will swiftly put an end to it. B)
Shiroi Okami
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#498 - 2011-11-15 04:40:21 UTC
Ghads Ghost wrote:
Shiroi Okami wrote:
The new naga is much, much better than the split bonus bullshit it had before. Torps are highly limited in their usefulness, whereas now we have a shield tanked gunboat which can wreck people with blasters and do awesome damage at mid to long range with rails. All of you mission running drake pilots who wanted the naga simply because it would make it easier than your drake to run l4s, GTFO. The tier 3s were designed as pvp ships and they should stay that way.




LOL I havent flown a Drake in a year I fly a Rattlesnake for Level 4's the Naga seemed to be a fun alternative with Sevenfolds fitting guess we will never know...

FOr those that like PVP have fun... just isnt what I come to Eve to do............

But why waste a ship just for PVP? Eve fitters are an inventive crew they will ALWAYS find to use a ship for what it isnt intended to do... looks like in this case another sue was found... until this nerf from CCP


Similarly, why waste a ship by designing it for PVE? And yet there is a class, they're called marauders. In addition to that the last few new ships CCP have brought out have all been PVE, including the noctis, primae, and zephyr. It's about damn time PVP got some love when it is all too often ignored because the carebears have the larger (And whinier) voice on the eve-o forums

My Latest Video: Freestyle III
cyka776
#499 - 2011-11-15 05:08:24 UTC
new naga is too scary

please return it to uselessness
Saikron
Crazy Leftist Loons
#500 - 2011-11-15 05:09:50 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
TALOS
For instance, let us give you a quick insight of the indirect problems we have to face regarding blaster balancing:


  • Do we want to nerf Barrage and Scorch? If yes, by how? Wouldn't that kill their usefulness as a whole? If no, can we add even more falloff to blasters, knowing it may be over-inflating the balance of power again?
  • Don't we need to have a look at shield extenders/armor plates as well? If we nerf them, are we confident with possible changes to passive tanking? Can't we make active tanking more useful on PvP setups, so that passive tanking is less used for blaster platforms and more on Amarr platforms, designed to be more static than Gallente? Doesn't that require looking into NOS/Neuts as well? How about Cap boosters? Overheating?
  • Can we make Gallente ships faster than Minmatar knowing they also use railguns? Wouldn't that be defeating the original design goals for Minmatar ships?


This is just unbelievable to me. You'll never find out the answer to any of these questions standing around wondering. The game is already imbalanced as is; who cares if Gallente is flavor of the expansion? Your balancing cycle has exacerbated the problem by leaving the balance of power as is for years on end. Variety is the spice of life; we're all tired of looking at the same meta game.