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Making DUST 514 matter to Eve : An answer to supercapitals
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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#21 - 2013-09-12 15:42:06 UTC
Problem is very few engagements involving supers/titans actually work out in a way that would fit in with this idea, you'd need to completely reinvent a lot of gameplay mechanics from scratch.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#22 - 2013-09-12 15:44:26 UTC
Kyeudo Van'mynai wrote:


As for having a stake in saving your ship, what stake does your fleetmates have in the survival of your ship?


As much as is placed on them, because EVE players can be directly affected by other EVE players. **** happens, but if you're instructed to do something and it doesn't happen because you drop the ball, there can be in-game consequences for you. Not so with DUST mercs doing things for EVE players.

I'm not necessarily against their being allowed to interfere with our ships; but only when we have a direct way to combat it ourselves, and can have direct, non-consensual interference in their game, as well. There's a lot of promised baby steps (Planetary Interaction, anyone? Meaningful FW effects?) that have yet to even be introduced before we get to the level of sabotaging supercaps.
Script66
Solus Ventures
#23 - 2013-09-12 15:53:47 UTC
Kyeudo Van'mynai wrote:
If DUST flatlines, Eve won't miss a beat.


TLDR

But, you answered your own post int the first paragraph. This is exactly why DUST will never actually matter to Eve, it was by design.
Kyeudo Van'mynai
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-09-12 16:09:16 UTC
Sam Alkawe wrote:
I think that instead of thinking that a group of mercenaries can destroy a ship, more interesting would be damaging certain attributes (how about messing with sensors? slowing that armor rep cycle?) or even offlining (and that's it, no magic *LETS BLOW THIS CAP*).


Yeah, I'm in the process of tweaking the opening post to make it more clear that utter cap destruction is probably not going to be on the table for a boarding action.

Rroff wrote:
Problem is very few engagements involving supers/titans actually work out in a way that would fit in with this idea, you'd need to completely reinvent a lot of gameplay mechanics from scratch.


They baby them because they are stupid expensive, making them non-expendable resources of incredible tactical value. Making them more killable would necessarily demand a drop in the logistics demand required to build them. There would be ramifications.

Domanique Altares wrote:

I'm not necessarily against their being allowed to interfere with our ships; but only when we have a direct way to combat it ourselves, and can have direct, non-consensual interference in their game, as well. There's a lot of promised baby steps (Planetary Interaction, anyone? Meaningful FW effects?) that have yet to even be introduced before we get to the level of sabotaging supercaps.


I don't think baby steps is what DUST needs, but I do see your point. Currently, DUST mercs only own the dropsuit on their back and the ones in their closets. They currently have no meaningful way to spend their isk, no way to spend isk to make isk, nothing to build, etc. EVE doesn't matter to them in the same way that DUST doesn't matter to EVE.

Honestly? I'd happily turn PI over to DUST, so they run the colonies and can build stuff to sell to other players, both in DUST and in EVE. POCOs would turn into an access point to the DUST universe marketplace. Then we can shell their PI from orbit.

Script66 wrote:

TLDR

But, you answered your own post int the first paragraph. This is exactly why DUST will never actually matter to Eve, it was by design.


You are so amazingly helpful.[/sarcasm]

DUST not being immediately connected was to shield EVE from a flop release. DUST didn't flop, it just didn't soar like they wanted. Now comes the part where they make DUST unique and give it an ongoing reason to exist or it dies slowly.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#25 - 2013-09-12 17:03:27 UTC
Kyeudo Van'mynai wrote:

Honestly? I'd happily turn PI over to DUST, so they run the colonies and can build stuff to sell to other players, both in DUST and in EVE. POCOs would turn into an access point to the DUST universe marketplace. Then we can shell their PI from orbit.


I'm glad you would; I wouldn't. PI is a nice side income for me. Give them access to the system, and give them PvP involvement with it, sure. But you don't turn it over to them wholesale, because that removes yet another source of interaction. Why the hell would I care about shelling their PI installations, if I have no ability to make anything from it myself?

This is the problem with DUST, and why CCP should not have rushed to release it in late alpha stage, claiming beta. For a game that claims to offer interaction with EVE, it offers virtually none; these integrations should have been well underway before DUST even saw the light of day. Trying to add a ton of it now is attempting to close the barn doors after the horses have escaped.
Script66
Solus Ventures
#26 - 2013-09-12 17:15:56 UTC
Kyeudo Van'mynai wrote:


DUST not being immediately connected was to shield EVE from a flop release. DUST didn't flop, it just didn't soar like they wanted. Now comes the part where they make DUST unique and give it an ongoing reason to exist or it dies slowly.


Its not going to get any bigger than it is right now, period. Its the way console games work. Rarely, if ever, does a game come out with less players, and gain many more later in its life. Eve is the exception, but that is because it is a very niche game. Dust is not.

Dust is a relic of the poor decisions that were being made a few years ago. It was a completely forced attempt to increase the Eve player base outside of the PC. Its why there wasn't a PC client, they didn't want to cannibalize their player base.

There are always new console games, and this year, new consoles. Its much harder to compete and especially keep a long running player base. The same exact people that play dust, are the same people that play call of duty, battlefield, etc. Yes, there are a few exceptions, notably existing Eve players.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#27 - 2013-09-12 19:02:07 UTC
ATM only one thing bothers me about Eve and Dust combination, its the market why cant Eve Capsulers build stuff, for the Infantery? Instead its all NPC Goods... boring.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Script66
Solus Ventures
#28 - 2013-09-12 19:22:32 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
ATM only one thing bothers me about Eve and Dust combination, its the market why cant Eve Capsulers build stuff, for the Infantery? Instead its all NPC Goods... boring.



Just goes back to CCP decoupling the game from EVE. If DUST fails and people are/were making goods for the infantry then suddenly they wasted a lot isk on blueprints and resources. Plus, it becomes very clear to everyone else in the community if the game is doing well or failing, just by looking at item sale numbers.
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