Crime & Punishment

Just because you can doesn't make it good style or productive to trying to have an argument. The entire sociopath discussion could have been avoided in favor of more on topic discussion of the issue. And while we're at ad-hominem, I'm free to offer the opinion that you are a douche.




Not every ganker is flashy red or an order pilot. As spine ripper explained so nicely, falling prey to a flashing red ganker is frequently akin to being nominated to a darwin award. Killrights could be a tool to help dealing with more sneaky non-flashy gankers.


In favor of returning to a civil discussion - and while people from the other side of the fence that are willing to have a civil discussion are around - I'd like to restate my opinion on concord response times and the fast pace of ganking and ask for feedback from people who have been on the ganking side of things.




Though I'm kinda starting to get the impression that people would even be to lazy to hire/pay a few newbie mercs to defend their belts...


Edit:
I'm especially interested in the ability of rather new players to defend a belt against gankers, as it seems unlikely that experience pvp'ers would be interested in a mission that is 95% guard duty. New players on the other hand might be more interested, as a payment above l1/2 security missions and potential boons such as ship replacement might be attractive enough to them.

As the holder of a medical degree you should know that Sociopath is a term that is no longer used, it's now called Antisocial Personality Disorder.

I'm a layman and I know that

I apologize for using what has become a layman's term when addressing a layman.

Your statement, when coupled to an assertion of medical training, comes rather suspiciously close to an assertion of authoritative opinion.

I *do* know actual medical professionals, whom post on the internet. Invariably, they are extremely careful to couch their statements in terms that avoid even the impression of making an authoritative statement unless they are actually making such a statement. Even when annoyed or frustrated. I appreaciate their care and professionalism
You? Not so impressive.

I think if you reread my post you will grasp that just such care was taken.

Ganker here.
Ganks are fast because Concord is fast. Concord response time is dialed-in in correspondance with System Security Ranking - Higher security, the cops show up faster. It's a no-brain association, and the higher security is, the harder it becomes to gank. This mirrors real life rather exactly. That said, if someone (me) is determined to commit a crime, it becomes very hard to prevent it. The harder it is to commit a gank, the more violence and speed I'm going to bring to make it happen - Up to and including inviting friends along.

Now, I also have a pseudo-carebear mining alt who regularly mines in 0.5 systems, alone. He hasn't been successfully ganked in over a year (last hit: March 2012). I fly about in lots of places in Empire Space, and frankly, Ganking is a rather rare activity. Sure, in terms of events, it's happening all the time, but in terms of events per player, it's rare - unless the player is taking risks. And by taking risks, I mean mining in The New Order's Area of Operations, or flying bling-y ships in area with high ganker activity, or deliberately baiting known Gankers, or in a number of other ways advertising that they're clueless and/or incompetent. Gankers are preditors. And like any good preditor, it's all about risk/reward. Show us you're an easy kill, and we'll take you up on that.

I'll again assert that CCP knows what they're doing. They've been doing this for over a decade, and have had all the input they could ever need on ganking, risks, timeings, and all other manner of related events.



This is unmitigated Bullshit. Ganking is fast because it needs to be, but if there were an option for slow-ganking, it would be used, and the reuslts would be the same. In fact, slow ganking DOES happen - in Low- and Nul-Sec. All slow ganking means is that the victim wriggles on the hook longer, and often gets killed by ships of humiliatingly low capability. I don't see that as an improvement.

Meanwhile, in Hi-Sec, all a victim needs to do is be able to tank for as much as 17 seconds or less, depending. That's not a particularly large challenge, in most situations. Sure, a large enough gank-gang is going to smoke your max-tanked Orca, but nothing was *ever* going to prevent that, and max DPS gank-gangs are relatively rare.

Making ganks take longer is 1) nightmarishly hard, considering the way the game works - you'd break the hell out of a lot of stuff to get your non-existant safety, and 2) will only cause gankers (me) to bring increased violence (and numbers) to offset the changes. In the end, you've gone to all that effort for exactly zero gain.


Active Gank Defense is highly unlikely to work. It's technically possible, but practically unfeasible. At best, the guards would be reacting to ganks-in-progress, which automatically puts them behind the curve. At worst, it'll only add entertaining new targets to the menu of victims.

Passive Gank Defense is not only feasible, but practical and easy. Don't fly dumb. Don't fly untanked unless you can afford the loss. Don't get greedy in known dangerous areas. Use the Star Map to determine where the dangerous areas are. Check Local. Use D-Scan. Orbit at range (keeps the speed up) and know where your safespots are - always know which one is closest to to your nose at any moment. Be prepared to abandon your drones (if any).
Situational Awareness is your best possible tank.

On the plus side of things, the "passive defense" of taking common low/null security precautions is simply good practice for one to eventually do reflexively. I relaxed my own standards and made assumptions of my adversaries that were unfounded. This I do not dispute. My corp originally was a null one and presently resides in low. These are elementary practices in our home space.

Ironically, I am the first to remind my corp mates to take all of the necessary precautions that I myself let lapse while in high sec.

My bone of contention has and remains that the economic equation and kill rights mechanic greatly favor the gankers. As much as this thread has inevitably devolved that is what it should be about.

The real bone is that I can never take from them a remotely comparable amount of resources without turning to ganking myself. In low, we take our payback when and how we can. In High, I can never hurt an adversary like they can hurt me because they can actually survive killing other peoples valuable ships with cheap ones. I have get one and only one chance to kill a trash Thrasher.

I on the other hand, cannot gank back with my isk farming care bear alt. If he turns to ganking he can no longer get profitable missions.

If I create a ganker alt to get payback then I have to spend Plex/isk to train him and time etc yadda yadda which the vastly greater majority of players forgo.

This is what is perpetuating the ganker class. I have no problem that CCP apparently thinks that you can never have a fun ship to fly anywhere in the game without watching your back. I am more than ok with that.

TL;DR

What I am asking for a civil discussion about is why do hi-sec game mechanics effectively protect and promote ganking alts? Is ganking too easy as the rewards seem to out weigh the risks and the victims can get no effective compensation in hi-sec?

why shouldn't stupid people be punished for being stupid?

you still didn't answer why stupid people shouldn't be punished for being stupid.

and now if you could answer the question I asked you, that'd be lovely.