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Machariel winter balance
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To mare
Advanced Technology
#41 - 2013-09-11 07:17:59 UTC
do what you want, but dont touch my speed agility
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-09-11 07:47:38 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Jasmine Assasin wrote:
The Machs PG is already tight, no need to reduce it.

And considering that they are buffing the Vargur so it will be able to fit 1400s I doubt the Mach would get nerfed in this regard anyway. Wouldn't make any sense. Unless they reduce turret count that is. Personally I think it should become an 8 gun ship as right now it looks awkward with only 7. If they do make it a 6 gun ship, hopefully they'll give it an extra mid (and some extra DPS bonus) to compensate.

The Vargur's getting more PWG because it can barely fit 800's and prop, let alone even think about arty. The Mach can fit Prop, 800's, a Heavy neut, a tank, and more.

You know... Just saying.

Edit: numbers, a Vargur goes >30% over PWG fitting 1400's, a Machariel is .3% over.


Yeah, ever farm a mach blueprint?

.....either way you are talking the only pirate ship that needs a fitting mod.
killerkeano
Doomheim
#43 - 2013-09-11 07:55:40 UTC
how can you compare it to a dominix??

Its a faction ship, costs 1bn, then another billion to fit it properly,

IT SHOULD BE BETTER than the Tier 1 battleships!
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2013-09-11 08:01:23 UTC
killerkeano wrote:
how can you compare it to a dominix??

Its a faction ship, costs 1bn, then another billion to fit it properly,

IT SHOULD BE BETTER than the Tier 1 battleships!


I think it's a bunch of jealous SNI pilots. Seriously.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-09-11 08:04:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Grrr forums
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#46 - 2013-09-11 09:24:12 UTC
The mach is too fast and too agile for how much damage it does. It needs either a damage nerf or speed/agility nerf...
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-09-11 09:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
According to this post, Machariel's theoretical weaknesses should be low ehp and poor damage projection. NPC Angel Cartel ships tend to be very fast, very short range, but hurt when close, so that means it needs to hurt up front, but lack the projection capability. This to me says "falloff needs to go". What to replace it with? Imo, the exact same thing the falloff bonus replaced, tracking speed.

The idea is to push the Machariel pilots much closer to their targets, making both the poor damage projection and the low ehp more meaningful, as per Ytterbium's request, while using the ship's great speed to bring it close to the enemy for a strike, then away from danger again. By contrast, a Vindicator as its closest counterpart would get in, then keep the target in range as it pounds it to dust, while the Machariel would be fast enough to chase the target around, while dictating range and angle (think oversized Stabber)
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-09-11 10:00:56 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
According to this post, Machariel's theoretical weaknesses should be low ehp and poor damage projection. NPC Angel Cartel ships tend to be very fast, very short range, but hurt when close, so that means it needs to hurt up front, but lack the projection capability. This to me says "falloff needs to go". What to replace it with? Imo, the exact same thing the falloff bonus replaced, tracking speed.

The idea is to push the Machariel pilots much closer to their targets, making both the poor damage projection and the low ehp more meaningful, as per Ytterbium's request, while using the ship's great speed to bring it close to the enemy for a strike, then away from danger again.


That always works.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#49 - 2013-09-11 10:19:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Atm RNI outperforms mach after its recent rebalance/cruise buff in everything, but speed/sig tank. So if you think Mach needs another nerf after TE rebalance - you are nuts. Any more and there will be no reason to fly it over, say RNI or t1 Domi, or Vargur with its announced bastion module and pirate ships are supposed to be better than any of those.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#50 - 2013-09-11 11:56:08 UTC
OP's idea looks pretty legit... Like many others, Id say move a high to a med tho.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-09-11 12:24:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
According to this post, Machariel's theoretical weaknesses should be low ehp and poor damage projection. NPC Angel Cartel ships tend to be very fast, very short range, but hurt when close, so that means it needs to hurt up front, but lack the projection capability. This to me says "falloff needs to go". What to replace it with? Imo, the exact same thing the falloff bonus replaced, tracking speed.

The idea is to push the Machariel pilots much closer to their targets, making both the poor damage projection and the low ehp more meaningful, as per Ytterbium's request, while using the ship's great speed to bring it close to the enemy for a strike, then away from danger again. By contrast, a Vindicator as its closest counterpart would get in, then keep the target in range as it pounds it to dust, while the Machariel would be fast enough to chase the target around, while dictating range and angle (think oversized Stabber)



If you have ever noticed a couple of the hacs can match a machariel at 50Km its only doing about 600 dps. That 1100 you are seeing on a fitter is is good for all of 3500km., and you are just shy of falloff at 50km with three TEs.

....or are you supposed to take a billion isk ship with 60eHP into scram range?
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-09-11 13:05:06 UTC
Onictus wrote:
If you have ever noticed a couple of the hacs can match a machariel at 50Km its only doing about 600 dps. That 1100 you are seeing on a fitter is is good for all of 3500km., and you are just shy of falloff at 50km with three TEs.

....or are you supposed to take a billion isk ship with 60eHP into scram range?


657 with T1 ammo, actually. 840 with Barrage. For comparison, a Vindicator with Null is sitting at 365 dps and a Pulse Navy Apocalypse at 827 using Scorch. All figures are including best drones for those ships, of course.

Now, I'm challenging you to give me a Stabber's ehp, dps and speed compared to Thorax.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-09-11 13:16:19 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Onictus wrote:
If you have ever noticed a couple of the hacs can match a machariel at 50Km its only doing about 600 dps. That 1100 you are seeing on a fitter is is good for all of 3500km., and you are just shy of falloff at 50km with three TEs.

....or are you supposed to take a billion isk ship with 60eHP into scram range?


657 with T1 ammo, actually. 840 with Barrage. For comparison, a Vindicator with Null is sitting at 365 dps and a Pulse Navy Apocalypse at 827 using Scorch. All figures are including best drones for those ships, of course.

Now, I'm challenging you to give me a Stabber's ehp, dps and speed compared to Thorax.



840 with barrage, that is funny I'm showing 690 in optimal, that is a PvP fit though so only two gyros the numbers I quoted were two Gyros three TE3s and
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-09-11 13:17:44 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:


Now, I'm challenging you to give me a Stabber's ehp, dps and speed compared to Thorax.


What do those have to do with faction battleship balance pray tell?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#55 - 2013-09-11 13:52:37 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
OP's idea looks pretty legit... Like many others, Id say move a high to a med tho.



If I moved a high to mid would the ship need more cpu? Or is 600 plenty

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#56 - 2013-09-11 14:04:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
According to this post, Machariel's theoretical weaknesses should be low ehp and poor damage projection. NPC Angel Cartel ships tend to be very fast, very short range, but hurt when close, so that means it needs to hurt up front, but lack the projection capability. This to me says "falloff needs to go". What to replace it with? Imo, the exact same thing the falloff bonus replaced, tracking speed.

The idea is to push the Machariel pilots much closer to their targets, making both the poor damage projection and the low ehp more meaningful, as per Ytterbium's request, while using the ship's great speed to bring it close to the enemy for a strike, then away from danger again. By contrast, a Vindicator as its closest counterpart would get in, then keep the target in range as it pounds it to dust, while the Machariel would be fast enough to chase the target around, while dictating range and angle (think oversized Stabber)


Problem is some things don't actually work as well ingame as they sound like on paper. Something with low EHP that has to get in close to do its thing in this game invariably ends up dead unless it has a very high base speed and very small sig.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#57 - 2013-09-11 14:12:50 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Machariel, Attack battleship

•Special ability: 20%(-5) bonus to Large Projectile Turret ROF
•Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level
•Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage

•Slot layout: 8H, 6M,(+1) 6L(-1); 8 turrets (+1), 0 launchers
•Fittings: 17,950 PG , 660 CPU
•Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 9000(-317) / 7000(-2298) / 7000(-1,260)
•Mobility (max velocity / mass/ agility): 140 m/s(-21) / 94,680,000 / 0.090 (+0.06)
•Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-50) / 75(-50)
•Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 62km / 135(-15) / 7
•Sensor strength: 22 Ladar (-4)
•Signature radius: 310 (-30)

I think this is more inline with other attack navy battleships and reducing its versatility emphasizing shield tank and low sig makes more sense as a kiting ship. along with more turret dps in exchange for drone dps.


i like where you are going... and the fitting look tight... how many rigs you need for arties?


far too many if its even possible without imps and RC's but it's supposed to be AC ship anyway



7 lows for an ac/shield boat?

Are you nuts?


eh... 6 mids 6 lows .. did you even read this post correctly?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#58 - 2013-09-11 14:19:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Regnar
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
According to this post, Machariel's theoretical weaknesses should be low ehp and poor damage projection. NPC Angel Cartel ships tend to be very fast, very short range, but hurt when close, so that means it needs to hurt up front, but lack the projection capability. This to me says "falloff needs to go". What to replace it with? Imo, the exact same thing the falloff bonus replaced, tracking speed.

The idea is to push the Machariel pilots much closer to their targets, making both the poor damage projection and the low ehp more meaningful, as per Ytterbium's request, while using the ship's great speed to bring it close to the enemy for a strike, then away from danger again. By contrast, a Vindicator as its closest counterpart would get in, then keep the target in range as it pounds it to dust, while the Machariel would be fast enough to chase the target around, while dictating range and angle (think oversized Stabber)


Yeah, because you want to fly mach into a scram range.
Good idea...

Everyone knows mach as is as good as dead when something scrams it and orbits it up close, if it can't neut the ship out it can't do anything at all.

You carebears got your cruises buffed so your CNRs do more damage at greater range than mach does. I'm assuming you don't pvp because if you did you wouldn't make statements as stupid as that.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#59 - 2013-09-11 16:16:28 UTC
ok i have removed one high slot and moved it the the mid slot. but at this point i am not adding any cpu.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2013-09-11 16:30:15 UTC
Based on the OP's suggestions and others here it is clear that this thread is full of people that obviously don't fly the ship in the game.