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Machariel winter balance
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Daichi Yamato

Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass

Likes received: 3,995

#21 - 2013-09-10 10:52:41 UTC

the spring in the machs step is its defining feature. build everything around that.

so even less ehp, but keep the agility, to make it the most focused attack battleship in the game. also 6 turrets and two utility highs is very cool.

Quote:

If you neerf it this level, then you need to nerf the vindicator as well..a dn the snow ball starts

i can see the vindi more focused into an attack role too

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Barrogh Habalu

Imperial Shipment

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 1,144

#22 - 2013-09-10 11:48:47 UTC | Edited by: Barrogh Habalu

While we are at it, let's nerf Bhaalgorn. I mean, in most cases Mach is a luxury, while Bhaal can be considered a necessity at times What?

No, it wasn't serious post. But I still feel that all-around nerf of Mach is not the greatest idea. You could address some of its traits but leave other strong points in place so that overall it's still great for some niche role (in some of which Mach is used already). For that matter, depending on what CCP has up their sleeve for other pirate BSs, it can happen that Mach won't be getting huge nerfs.

And yeah, visual layout of turrets should be fixed.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become

Harvey James

The Sengoku Legacy

Likes received: 1,267

#23 - 2013-09-10 13:26:15 UTC

MeBiatch wrote:

So IMO the Mach is the best sub cap ship in game.

It has been for a long long time and needs to get its stuff in gear.

Below is the changes the ship needs to be in line with all other ships

Quote:

Machariel

•Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret tracking

•Galente Battleship Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level

•Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level

•Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 7L; 6turrets (-1), 0 launchers
•Fittings: 16000 (-1950) MW PWG , 600 CPU
•Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8000(-1317) / 8000(-1298) / 9000(+740)
•Mobility (max velocity / mass): 140 m/s(-21) / 98,500,000 (+8,320,000)
•Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75(-25) / 100(-25)
•Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km(-2km) / 140-10 / 7
•Sensor strength: 26 LADAR
•Signature radius: 360(-+20)

I fixed the decimal place for you but you're numbers are wrong 94.680,000kg is the current Mach's mass so if you add 8.320,000
you get more than 98,500,000 kg

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

MeBiatch

GRR GOONS

Likes received: 2,108

#24 - 2013-09-10 13:44:16 UTC

Kagura Nikon wrote:

MeBiatch wrote:

Frostys Virpio wrote:

How dare you put round numbers in a ship stats sheet?

well they were all rounded down... plus the fall off got a good nerf.

so its slower shoots not as far is bigger sig resolution smaller drone bay...

overall its a total nerf. but still a great ship.

You overnerfed it a little bit. If you neerf it this level, then you need to nerf the vindicator as well..a dn the snow ball starts. THe path is correct, but could be less agressive on a few points.

so what move a high to a mid?

which area would you increase so not to make the nerf too much?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Harvey James

The Sengoku Legacy

Likes received: 1,267

#25 - 2013-09-10 13:45:33 UTC

Machariel, Attack battleship

•Special ability: 20%(-5) bonus to Large Projectile Turret ROF
•Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level
•Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage

•Slot layout: 8H, 6M,(+1) 6L(-1); 8 turrets (+1), 0 launchers
•Fittings: 17,950 PG , 660 CPU
•Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 9000(-317) / 7000(-2298) / 7000(-1,260)
•Mobility (max velocity / mass/ agility): 140 m/s(-21) / 94,680,000 / 0.090 (+0.06)
•Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-50) / 75(-50)
•Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 62km / 135(-15) / 7
•Sensor strength: 22 Ladar (-4)
•Signature radius: 310 (-30)

I think this is more inline with other attack navy battleships and reducing its versatility emphasizing shield tank and low sig makes more sense as a kiting ship. along with more turret dps in exchange for drone dps.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

MeBiatch

GRR GOONS

Likes received: 2,108

#26 - 2013-09-10 13:46:08 UTC

Harvey James wrote:

I fixed the decimal place for you but you're numbers are wrong 94.680,000kg is the current Mach's mass so if you add 8.320,000
you get more than 98,500,000 kg

thanks i was pulling off of eve wiki for the info... that site really needs an update

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 1
Proteles Cristatus Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. Likes received: 1	#27 - 2013-09-10 13:50:52 UTC Nerfing the Machariel's speed. Isn't that like Nerfing a mining barges miners?.. (i.e. a bit stupid)

Harvey James

The Sengoku Legacy

Likes received: 1,267

#28 - 2013-09-10 14:00:46 UTC

Proteles Cristatus wrote:

Nerfing the Machariel's speed.

Isn't that like Nerfing a mining barges miners?..

(i.e. a bit stupid)

not really .. besides its quicker than all bc's atm it just has to be done whether you like it or not besides i think mass and agility will be more important to keep intact .. if you can't turn and kite quick enough than speed is irrelevant.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

TheFace Asano

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 47

#29 - 2013-09-10 14:32:16 UTC

I think this might be similar to how CCP balanced tier 3 BCs. Slight nerf to the speed, increase mass, leave the rest alone. Increase a few of the other Pirate BC's to be closer to the performance of the mach by slight increases to their performance (Rattlesnake and Bhaalgorn). These are high isk ships, they don't need over nerf. They also need the extra dps and tracking to be something special above faction, as they are supposed to be a straight improvement to faction.

Also can we get a proper missile ship in pirate bs, preferably with Caldari and Minmatar BS bonuses?

Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 199
Ghost Phius Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic Likes received: 199	#30 - 2013-09-10 16:05:59 UTC I will start paying attention when/if the devs make an announcement about any changes "they" have in mind. Just another player driven nerf this or that ship thread. Nothing to see here but bias ways to over nerf another ship.....typical.

MeBiatch

GRR GOONS

Likes received: 2,108

#31 - 2013-09-10 16:08:33 UTC

Harvey James wrote:

i like where you are going... and the fitting look tight... how many rigs you need for arties?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

MeBiatch

GRR GOONS

Likes received: 2,108

#32 - 2013-09-10 16:11:05 UTC

Ghost Phius wrote:

I will start paying attention when/if the devs make an announcement about any changes "they" have in mind.
Just another player driven nerf this or that ship thread.

Nothing to see here but bias ways to over nerf another ship.....typical.

we i had started off with a rather weak nerf then re did the op with a rather severe one. i am working on the 3rd iteration.

and there is no harm with theory crafting before the devs do thier own op... as a matter of fact by us doing it now... it might reduce the amount of Dev ops will be needed.

tell me what are you suggestions.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Harvey James

The Sengoku Legacy

Likes received: 1,267

#33 - 2013-09-10 16:25:39 UTC

MeBiatch wrote:

Harvey James wrote:

i like where you are going... and the fitting look tight... how many rigs you need for arties?

far too many if its even possible without imps and RC's but it's supposed to be AC ship anyway

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Ghost Phius

Tribal Liberation Force

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 199

#34 - 2013-09-10 16:32:54 UTC

Quote:

The devs changed the mods that were allowing the Projectile ships with falloff bonuses to hit out an additional 14km's recently. That had a nice ramping down affect on the effectiveness of AC's at longer distances and their ability to "apply" the DPS listed in eft.

The "only" thing that "might" be needed would be a slight 5-10% reduction in speed. Anymore would require changes to add more cap and tank as with the Mach the speed is a major part of the tank, along with the ability to set the distance of the fight, which once again was already nerfed in the mod changes made recently.

I don't see the need to nerf a Billion isk double skill intensive top shelf pirate faction BS that is supposed to be a major butt kicker in the first place.

The Mach as is is FAR from OP mainly because it has a hard time "applying" all of that full 1400 DPS it lists mainly due to how they fight in falloff or beyond the vast majority of the time.

Jasmine Assasin

The Holy Rollers

Likes received: 170

#35 - 2013-09-10 16:43:53 UTC

The Machs PG is already tight, no need to reduce it.

You should know this if you have ever actually flown the ship...

And considering that they are buffing the Vargur so it will be able to fit 1400s I doubt the Mach would get nerfed in this regard anyway. Wouldn't make any sense. Unless they reduce turret count that is. Personally I think it should become an 8 gun ship as right now it looks awkward with only 7. If they do make it a 6 gun ship, hopefully they'll give it an extra mid (and some extra DPS bonus) to compensate.

Really the Mach is about speed and that should not change because of some butthurt. The Mach is cool, I have one but I rarely fly it because I simply don't have a "mission" for it (well I do, it's great for L4 Recon 3/3...) so most of the time it just collects dust. Oddly enough I bought it from another incursion runner that wanted to get rid of it because he wasn't flying it either...

Sure it's a nice ship but it's not some all empowered mythical end all be all death machine. Even if some people like to think it is.

MeBiatch

GRR GOONS

Likes received: 2,108

#36 - 2013-09-10 16:56:40 UTC

Jasmine Assasin wrote:

The Machs PG is already tight, no need to reduce it.

You should know this if you have ever actually flown the ship...

.

so i have 800's on mine... so i litterally have loads of pg left...

or do you mean fly the ship you like to equip it.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.


Jasmine Assasin The Holy Rollers Likes received: 170	#37 - 2013-09-10 17:00:19 UTC MeBiatch wrote: Jasmine Assasin wrote: The Machs PG is already tight, no need to reduce it. You should know this if you have ever actually flown the ship... . so i have 800's on mine... so i litterally have loads of pg left... or do you mean fly the ship you like to equip it. Oh, so it's okay to ignore people that don't fit how you do...oh wait.

Goldensaver

Maraque Enterprises

Just let it happen

Likes received: 434

#38 - 2013-09-10 17:51:19 UTC | Edited by: Goldensaver

Jasmine Assasin wrote:

The Machs PG is already tight, no need to reduce it.

And considering that they are buffing the Vargur so it will be able to fit 1400s I doubt the Mach would get nerfed in this regard anyway. Wouldn't make any sense. Unless they reduce turret count that is. Personally I think it should become an 8 gun ship as right now it looks awkward with only 7. If they do make it a 6 gun ship, hopefully they'll give it an extra mid (and some extra DPS bonus) to compensate.

The Vargur's getting more PWG because it can barely fit 800's and prop, let alone even think about arty. The Mach can fit Prop, 800's, a Heavy neut, a tank, and more.

You know... Just saying.

Edit: numbers, a Vargur goes >30% over PWG fitting 1400's, a Machariel is .3% over.

CODE.d 6,149
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d Likes received: 6,149	#39 - 2013-09-11 04:05:52 UTC 2 Will the new Machariel come in the fishy black of the Moracha? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.