These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP: EASY HYBRID SOLUTION!

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-11-14 18:53:58 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxak
Update:

Let me clarify. Amarr ships are slow and fat. Their lasers are medium-longish range with good DPS and moderate alpha. Amarr ships work well.

Gallente ships are slow and fat...... so let's make their weapons like lasers (or like ACs/Arty), and simply move on.

The idea that blasters have to be DPS gods is holding back the entire balance issue. Just bring blasters and hybrids in general in line with the other two weapons systems.

Duh...


Previous post below, where I say basically the same thing:


Seriously....

What is so complicated about it? Just give them significantly more range and balance their DPS so its similar (maybe a little bit better) than ACs/Arty, with slightly less Alpha.

How is that so hard?

The idea of a short range failboat is dead. Live with it. Make EVE fun again.


TL;DR
Amarr slow with lasers work well. // Gallente slow. Make hybirds similar to lasers and Gallente work well agian.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#2 - 2011-11-14 18:55:44 UTC
.... Short range boats still mattered in alot of situations where I land right on top of you and start tearing though your defenses with no chance to get away.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Stan Smith
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-11-14 18:59:42 UTC
how about we make all short range weapons have the same stats across the board so all weapons are viable in pvp?

☻/ /▌ / \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
Rixiu
PonyTek
#4 - 2011-11-14 19:01:54 UTC
xxxak wrote:
Seriously....

What is so complicated about it? Just give them significantly more range and balance their DPS so its similar (maybe a little bit better) than ACs/Arty, with slightly less Alpha.

How is that so hard?

The idea of a short range failboat is dead. Live with it. Make EVE fun again.


So you want two types of projectiles then? Why not just fly minmatar?
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#5 - 2011-11-14 19:02:28 UTC
You have 3 main variables effectively:

Optimal Range - The Amarr are best,
Falloff Range - The Minmatar are best,
Damage - The Gallente are best,

The two sub variables are
Rate of Fire - effectively the same as Damage.
Tracking - important no doubt, but if you can't get into range you can track as fast as you want.

The issue here is that Minmatar have the best total range and best speed. The Gallente have great damage but have a really hard time closing. So boosting damage and tracking only help a little bit.

Now if you gave blaster stats to Minmatar and proj to gallente, you'd have something AWESOME ... move fast, hit hard and fast and GTFO ... Gallente could still plinky with proj and drones.

But really if you COPY Projectile stats to Hybrids, you've balanced and made it no different.

Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-11-14 19:03:18 UTC
What is hard about balancing a weapon system that is only used on either armor tankers, or the, by design, slowest ships in the game? Gee, lets think about that for a minute.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-11-14 19:03:21 UTC

*lol*

Love it when ignorant idiots errr people believe things are sooo easy to do,
when they have NO CLUE about all the stuff that's behind every single change that has to be considered !


Every time you say "it's so easy blabla just do blabla " you acknowledge your inability of thinking deeply
and your ignorance of the fact that complex problems most often can not be solved in a simple manner.


Thank you very much.
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-11-14 19:28:11 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:

*lol*

Love it when ignorant idiots errr people believe things are sooo easy to do,
when they have NO CLUE about all the stuff that's behind every single change that has to be considered !


Every time you say "it's so easy blabla just do blabla " you acknowledge your inability of thinking deeply
and your ignorance of the fact that complex problems most often can not be solved in a simple manner.


Thank you very much.

Often, yes. But not always. In this case every problem stems from the simple fact that Minmatar and Gallente are used wrong.

Or, to be more precise: the devs designed the ships and weapons of each race in a way that they would be perfectly suited for the tactics of the other race.

The Minmatar are designed for close range combat and sniping.
The Gallente are designed for medium range combat.

So if you are using them the other way it can´t work well.

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#9 - 2011-11-14 19:28:51 UTC
... This isnt FnI, reporting.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Joseph Dreadloch
Dread Space Inc.
#10 - 2011-11-14 19:37:30 UTC
xxxak wrote:
TL;DR
Amarr slow with lasers work well. // Gallente slow. Make hybirds similar to lasers and Gallente work well agian.


No.

As far as I'm concerned Gallente need to be the TF2 equivalent of the Scout, Minmatar the Soldier, Amarr the Heavy, and Caldari... hell I don't know they'd sort of be like Soldiers with missiles that never missed wouldnt they...
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-11-14 20:58:43 UTC
Stan Smith wrote:
how about we make all short range weapons have the same stats across the board so all weapons are viable in pvp?


How about we make one prefitted ship sold by NPC Big smile and remove everything else.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-11-14 21:06:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
Often, yes. But not always. In this case every problem stems from the simple fact that Minmatar and Gallente are used wrong.

Or, to be more precise: the devs designed the ships and weapons of each race in a way that they would be perfectly suited for the tactics of the other race.

The Minmatar are designed for close range combat and sniping.
The Gallente are designed for medium range combat.

So if you are using them the other way it can´t work well.


*misread*

Well,
... AS LONG AS YOU DON'T WANT TO CHANGE A COMPLETE RACE ...
... IGNORANCE THE STORYLINE AND MAKE MANY PEOPLE VERY ANGRY ...
... i'm happy with everything that makes the community happy ...
... and DOES NOT **** UP MY SHIPS !

:)
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#13 - 2011-11-14 21:12:42 UTC
Joseph Dreadloch wrote:
xxxak wrote:
TL;DR
Amarr slow with lasers work well. // Gallente slow. Make hybirds similar to lasers and Gallente work well agian.


No.

As far as I'm concerned Gallente need to be the TF2 equivalent of the Scout, Minmatar the Soldier, Amarr the Heavy, and Caldari... hell I don't know they'd sort of be like Soldiers with missiles that never missed wouldnt they...

I would think Minmatar would be the Scout and Gallente be the Pyro for blasters and the Sniper for railguns

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Cunane Jeran
#14 - 2011-11-14 21:14:37 UTC
xxxak wrote:


TL;DR
Amarr slow with lasers work well. // Gallente slow. Make hybirds similar to lasers and Gallente work well agian.


Terrible idea. Variation is the key to fun, and you sound like you have no experience with hybrids.

Rails while weak compared to Beams/Arties still work fine they will kill stuff pretty quickly med range with AM ammo. Not to mention large rails at 100km do pretty good damage at that extreme range. What holds them back is fitting reqs. CCP has addressed this nicely on the test server, and once the patch hits, along with the other changes, Rails will certainly be a lot more viable.

Blasters are very short range and yes it can be an issue to get into range, but if your fighting on gate/station complex they are fine, yes tracking would be nice, and there are many situations where that little extra range would be nice but they are certainly viable as they stand. As for the hull slow speed issue, yes again a problem, but a dual rep Brutix and hype have shown that you can get a decent tank, and keep a decent speed without being weighed down with 1600mm plates, while being viable. Assuming you have enough Cap 800's.

The hulls are going to be going faster, and getting a much needed agility boost along with tracking this is a considerable improvement, while the lesser fittings allow a nicer dual rep option on the boats with the bonus, again helping the speed.

Those without? Glass cannon it. MWD and a DCII is more than enough tank if your a true blaster pilot :P
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-11-14 22:34:02 UTC
Cunane Jeran wrote:
xxxak wrote:


TL;DR
Amarr slow with lasers work well. // Gallente slow. Make hybirds similar to lasers and Gallente work well agian.


Terrible idea. Variation is the key to fun, and you sound like you have no experience with hybrids.

Rails while weak compared to Beams/Arties still work fine they will kill stuff pretty quickly med range with AM ammo. Not to mention large rails at 100km do pretty good damage at that extreme range. What holds them back is fitting reqs. CCP has addressed this nicely on the test server, and once the patch hits, along with the other changes, Rails will certainly be a lot more viable.

Blasters are very short range and yes it can be an issue to get into range, but if your fighting on gate/station complex they are fine, yes tracking would be nice, and there are many situations where that little extra range would be nice but they are certainly viable as they stand. As for the hull slow speed issue, yes again a problem, but a dual rep Brutix and hype have shown that you can get a decent tank, and keep a decent speed without being weighed down with 1600mm plates, while being viable. Assuming you have enough Cap 800's.

The hulls are going to be going faster, and getting a much needed agility boost along with tracking this is a considerable improvement, while the lesser fittings allow a nicer dual rep option on the boats with the bonus, again helping the speed.

Those without? Glass cannon it. MWD and a DCII is more than enough tank if your a true blaster pilot :P


I get it, you are a noob "pirate." You are right, sorta. For your purposes, low sec gate camps and a few short roams, the new changes will noticeably improve rails and blasters.

But for mid-to-large scale PvP, they will still be second rate, and no on in the right mind uses a second rate fit for a large fleet.

Close, but no cigar.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#16 - 2011-11-14 22:51:21 UTC
It's not simply the mechanics of the different kinds of weapons that's at issues, it's the properties of the ships they're meant for and the racial bonuses they offer based on this paradigm that's conflicting. If we flatten all stats and bonuses to be the same, EVE loses some of its charm in dividing player mentalities by race.

It's not a perfect analogy, but imagine armed forces int he US. They're all on the same side, but there's competition and chauvinism between each branch and it's from that infighting that superiority and initiative is bred. We need them all to think they're better than the others, but not so much that they grow complacent.

Balancing in EVE isn't about giving everyone with the same knowledge to follow a perfect formula. It's to force people to think differently and cooperate with people who they know to understand things as they do, but not in a way where the benefits can be absolutely, objectively quantified.
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#17 - 2011-11-15 07:41:35 UTC
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire
uglybass
Spatial Idiocity Inc.
#18 - 2011-11-15 14:23:30 UTC
Oh yes, I love youre idea.
tl;dr make every race ships/weapons similar and there is no balancing issues between races.