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Crime & Punishment

 
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Global Kill Rights for 0 ISK a bit excessive?
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Barzai Mekhar
True Confusion
#61 - 2013-09-08 18:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Barzai Mekhar
Buzz LiteBeer wrote:

The victim puts the KR global for 50m. Now the pirate can decide whether to fly in ships that are worth less than 50m or pay a corp mate 50m and be free from the 30 day hindrance on what ships he can fly in sections of space that could be a threat to him. So yes, the pirate indirectly pays the victim for his loss to get out having a global kill right, but at the same time he isn't losing a ship/pod that could of potentially cost much more.


It could have cost him more. It could have cost him less. It could have cost him nothing because no one might have activated it if it had been to costly. That's the beauty of the system as it is, the victim has to acutally think about the value he puts on the killright.

Pick a small value, you're likely to get some money out of it and random people are more likely to activate it in order to take a shot at the offender. However you're unlikely to cause serious harm to the offender, as he could get out of the killright for a small fee (though even that might add up, depending on the number of killrights the offender causes... 50mio once might not be alot, 50mio for each of the 20 miners last week in order to do some missioning hurts...).

Pick a large value, if the killright gets activated you receive alot of money and there's a good chance the offender will hurt alot (unless someone wasted the killright on a cheap kill). However, if you pick the value too large, it's unlikely many will bother with it. Between the two extremes exists a sliding scale you want to replace with a simple "high loss, expensive killright, will most likely not be activated".


Buzz LiteBeer wrote:

So like said before, in no realistic scenario is anyone who is aware of the system going to suffer from it or benefit. No victim is going to make a KR worth exactly how much he lost unless it is something very reasonable and the more reasonable the price gets the more choices there are for the pirate to ignore it or just pay the victim the small percentage of his loss to clear his name.

I mean if I can figure all of this out and I have only known about the system for a little over a week now, then I can't imagine how others have figured out how to get around it.



I prefer a killright that forces the pirate to pay a "reasonable price", 10.000.000-50.000.000 over a 1 billion killright he can outright ignore because no one in their right mind would ever activate it.
Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2013-09-08 20:03:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Ressiv
Buzz LiteBeer wrote:
I mean if I can figure all of this out and I have only known about the system for a little over a week now, then I can't imagine how others have figured out how to get around it.


You figured out how game mechanics work .. which isnt all that hard as the wiki page you quoted a few posts back realy makes it a no-brainer tbh.

What you didnt seem to have figured out is that this system, like the rest of EVE, requires someone at the helm that is able to take these mechanics and use them in their advantage, or at least as a disatvantage to their foes.

The fact that "most people dont look at killboards to see what the dude regularly flies", and base their activation cost on that, only means that like you, they did not properly thought it through.

Now for the love of the flying spaghetti monster, please stop saying that because it's not dummy proof, it's therefore disfunctional. In a game like EVE that sounds kinda daft.
Ra Jackson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-09-09 08:58:45 UTC
Buzz LiteBeer wrote:

Bounties worked like this before:

Pilot puts X bounty on other pilot, then pilot with bounty has corp mate destroy his rookie ship and collect bounty. They then share the bounty with each other.


Why am I not surprised to see that you don't even know how the old system worked?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-09-09 09:14:36 UTC
Buzz LiteBeer wrote:
People dodge the system regardless... Since it has been mentioned multiple times that people not only ignore the global kill right, but often exploit it by having a corp mate blow up a rookie ship belonging to the the person with the active kill right.


I don't even waste the time of a corp member, I just undock a battleship outside Jita & wait for someone to activate it. I then dock back up & bring out a rookie ship. People are very willing to pay large amounts of isk to activate kill rights on you when you appear in a ship loaded with expensive mods.

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Buzz LiteBeer
#65 - 2013-09-09 14:50:50 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Buzz LiteBeer wrote:
People dodge the system regardless... Since it has been mentioned multiple times that people not only ignore the global kill right, but often exploit it by having a corp mate blow up a rookie ship belonging to the the person with the active kill right.


I don't even waste the time of a corp member, I just undock a battleship outside Jita & wait for someone to activate it. I then dock back up & bring out a rookie ship. People are very willing to pay large amounts of isk to activate kill rights on you when you appear in a ship loaded with expensive mods.


And there you go, yet another way to exploit it Lol
Buzz LiteBeer
#66 - 2013-09-09 14:58:30 UTC
Ra Jackson wrote:
Buzz LiteBeer wrote:

Bounties worked like this before:

Pilot puts X bounty on other pilot, then pilot with bounty has corp mate destroy his rookie ship and collect bounty. They then share the bounty with each other.


Why am I not surprised to see that you don't even know how the old system worked?


Exchange rookie ship for pod, and the argument is still valid. Cherry pick more.
Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-09-09 15:16:11 UTC
Buzz LiteBeer wrote:
Ra Jackson wrote:
Buzz LiteBeer wrote:

Bounties worked like this before:

Pilot puts X bounty on other pilot, then pilot with bounty has corp mate destroy his rookie ship and collect bounty. They then share the bounty with each other.


Why am I not surprised to see that you don't even know how the old system worked?


Exchange rookie ship for pod, and the argument is then valid. Cherry pick more.

FYP
Ra Jackson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2013-09-10 07:38:55 UTC
Buzz LiteBeer wrote:

And there you go, yet another way to exploit it Lol


So? It shows that the mechanics in place are not "excessive", as you put it. There are several ways to avoid stupid losses to public killrights as you can see. As well as there are ways to use the system wisely. There is absolutely no reason to dumb it down, as you would like to.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2013-09-10 14:55:39 UTC
Buzz LiteBeer wrote:

So what I am suggesting is players depending on how they are related to the person who has the kill right pay a certain percentage of the lost pod/ship (depending on if it was done in high sec or low sec) to be able to activate the kill right. This could keep some people from manipulating the loop hole in the system of just having a buddy or alt do it in a rookie ship, like suggested above.

ok. let's look at example:
- you (ganker) is dedicated ganker, you fly in cheap ships (like suicide catalysts) and without implants. (*)
- you (ganker) kill pod worth 100mils
- me (hunter, not directly related to victim) pays 25% of victim loss for accessing killrights (this is 25 millions)

Now comes the question: you offer me to pay 25 million to get chance to kill your cheap ship and empty pod? Where is the catch?

* - this is how the most high-sec gankers live. That's why original CCPs idea about "selling killrights" doesn't work. That's why i simply ignored my killrights when some butthead suicided me in empire: he didn't worth hunting.

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