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Machariel winter balance
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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1 - 2013-09-09 16:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
So IMO the Mach is the best sub cap ship in game.

It has been for a long long time and needs to get its stuff in gear.

Below is the changes the ship needs to be in line with all other ships

Quote:
Machariel

•Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret tracking



•Galente Battleship Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level

•Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level



•Slot layout: 7H(-1), 6M(+1), 7L; 6turrets (-1), 1(+1) launchers
•Fittings: 16000 (-1950) MW PWG , 600 CPU
•Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8000(-1317) / 8000(-1298) / 9000(+740)
•Mobility (max velocity / mass): 140 m/s(-21) / 98,500,000 (+8,320,000)
•Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75(-25) / 100(-25)
•Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km(-2km) / 140-10 / 7
•Sensor strength: 26 LADAR
•Signature radius: 360(-+20)

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-09-09 16:48:13 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
So IMO the Mach is the best sub cap ship in game.

It has been for a long long time and needs to get its stuff in gear.

Below is the changes the ship needs to be in line with all other ships

Quote:
Machariel

•Role Bonus: 25% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire



•Galente Battleship Skill Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level (-2.5%)

•Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level



•Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 7L; 7turrets, 0 launchers
•Fittings: 17000 (-950) MW PWG , 600 CPU
•Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 9000(-317) / 9000(-298) / 8000(-260)
•Mobility (max velocity / mass): 150 m/s(-11) / 980,000,000 (+3,320,000)
•Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75(-25) / 100(-25)
•Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km(-2km) / 140-10 / 7
•Sensor strength: 26 LADAR
•Signature radius: 360(-+20)





How dare you put round numbers in a ship stats sheet?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#3 - 2013-09-09 16:58:31 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How dare you put round numbers in a ship stats sheet?


well they were all rounded down... plus the fall off got a good nerf.

so its slower shoots not as far is bigger sig resolution smaller drone bay...

overall its a total nerf. but still a great ship.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Lilliana Stelles
#4 - 2013-09-09 17:31:52 UTC
I'd be okay with these new stats if it had 8 turrets.

Not a forum alt. 
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5 - 2013-09-09 17:48:06 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
I'd be okay with these new stats if it had 8 turrets.


i am not sure if the loss of one heavy drone and 12.5% turret range warrents an extra turret slot.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
SkupojHren
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-09-09 18:15:16 UTC
thats not rebalance ideea,thats nerf lool.

also,mach is bad in my eyes.if anything it could get the capacitor balanced a little.
Balthazar Lestrane
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#7 - 2013-09-09 18:29:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthazar Lestrane
Quote:
thats not rebalance ideea,thats nerf lool.


Nerfing is a form of rebalance. Domis just saw a slight nerf to drone tracking to bring it line with ships that also receive the same bonus (7.5%, down from 10%). Now it's consistent. Balanced, if you will.

As for the Mach, it does have a hefty price tag. I see people using Rattlesnakes and Bhaalgorns as much as I see Machariels. It isn't the hull that is unbalanced IMO, it's just the nature of projectiles and their high alpha artillery. Furthermore, stop comparing different ship roles. There's always going to be a ship that does something better than another ship can do. HTFU.
Dave stark
#8 - 2013-09-09 19:37:18 UTC
probably replace 1 shield extender rig with another ACR rig, and nothing has changed except a slight drop in EHP.

8k ehp loss, meh. it's still better than any of the proposed marauders for incursions.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#9 - 2013-09-09 20:46:25 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
probably replace 1 shield extender rig with another ACR rig, and nothing has changed except a slight drop in EHP.

8k ehp loss, meh. it's still better than any of the proposed marauders for incursions.


so not enough ehp loss?

what would you suggest if i have not gone far enough?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Dave stark
#10 - 2013-09-09 21:26:39 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
probably replace 1 shield extender rig with another ACR rig, and nothing has changed except a slight drop in EHP.

8k ehp loss, meh. it's still better than any of the proposed marauders for incursions.


so not enough ehp loss?

what would you suggest if i have not gone far enough?


all you did was take some of the fitting off, essentially nothing relevant was changed to address the gap between marauders and pirate battleships in an incursion environment.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#11 - 2013-09-09 21:33:44 UTC
Why not reduce it to it's strengths? That would leave mobility, signature and offense - just peel away the rest :>

(rest = things like battleshipsized dronebandwidth and base hitpoints, would work like before, just even more 'on-the-edge')
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-09-09 21:49:15 UTC
I've heard the Mach referred to as the best cruiser in the game.... its speed and agility need a much larger nerf than what you've proposed.
- Although most of the T1 BSs are now significantly faster (ie the "attack" BSs) - I suppose the other pirate BSs could get speed buffs, while the mach remains unchanged.

Meanwhile, I think the PG nerf is uncalled for.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#13 - 2013-09-09 22:06:50 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
probably replace 1 shield extender rig with another ACR rig, and nothing has changed except a slight drop in EHP.

8k ehp loss, meh. it's still better than any of the proposed marauders for incursions.


so not enough ehp loss?

what would you suggest if i have not gone far enough?


all you did was take some of the fitting off, essentially nothing relevant was changed to address the gap between marauders and pirate battleships in an incursion environment.


read again I also reduced the falloff plus increased mass and sig and slowed it down. .. now I ask again how much shield hp and armor does it need to loose? 500-1000?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#14 - 2013-09-09 22:31:35 UTC
Ok op has been updated with more significant nerf

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#15 - 2013-09-10 01:05:27 UTC
If you're going to drop it to 6 turrets (which is fine purely from an aesthetic and cost standpoint), you need to reallocate one of the highs to a medium. It's sorely lacking as a shield tank.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#16 - 2013-09-10 03:24:57 UTC
Don't have time to read all the replies right now, but Mach needs nerfed... Also, it needs 8 guns with a bonus nerf to compensate. The 7 gun layout on that ship drives me nuts with the actual gun placement on the ship... I actually sold mine because of that. For that reason alone XD
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#17 - 2013-09-10 05:41:12 UTC
m3talc0re X wrote:
Don't have time to read all the replies right now, but Mach needs nerfed... Also, it needs 8 guns with a bonus nerf to compensate. The 7 gun layout on that ship drives me nuts with the actual gun placement on the ship... I actually sold mine because of that. For that reason alone XD


6 guns, buff the tracking and/or damage and allocate a high slot to a medium so we can run a decent shield tank.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#18 - 2013-09-10 07:15:48 UTC
It can already run a decent shield tank XD Afaik, it can. I'm fine with 6 guns or 8 guns, so long as it's f'ing even. The gun layout on the ship just looks ******** with 7 guns on it.
TZeer
BURN EDEN
No Therapy
#19 - 2013-09-10 10:20:31 UTC
Don't you touch the alpha!
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-09-10 10:25:51 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How dare you put round numbers in a ship stats sheet?


well they were all rounded down... plus the fall off got a good nerf.

so its slower shoots not as far is bigger sig resolution smaller drone bay...

overall its a total nerf. but still a great ship.



You overnerfed it a little bit. If you neerf it this level, then you need to nerf the vindicator as well..a dn the snow ball starts. THe path is correct, but could be less agressive on a few points.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
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