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Sanmatar
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#21 - 2013-09-08 10:53:48 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Since it's extremely unlikely the Federation or Empire will ally together due to the deep divergence in their ideological foundations it would mean an inability by either alone to launch continued offensive action against a united State-Republic front.


You seem quite sure of that.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-09-08 11:02:52 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Since it's extremely unlikely the Federation or Empire will ally together due to the deep divergence in their ideological foundations it would mean an inability by either alone to launch continued offensive action against a united State-Republic front.


You seem quite sure of that.


Are you implying the majority of Federal citizens would either support, or find no compromise in their own ideals in supporting an Imperial military Reclaiming? That a Federal Administration would promote and support slavery as part of their foreign policy?

Granted, I believe I stated it was extremely unlikely but not impossible. The Federation has a history of its governments pursuing policies that have little to no domestic support among its people in the name of what Administrations deem to be national interests.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2013-09-08 12:12:16 UTC
With the current governments, it is indeed less likely than with the previous ones.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#24 - 2013-09-08 16:15:01 UTC
In the interest of keeping this topic on point I'll not be responding to the insults and attempted moralizing directed at me. If you wish to berate me please either do so directly via appropriate media or start a separate thread. Thank you.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#25 - 2013-09-08 17:27:49 UTC
I don't believe anyone was berating you. However if you wish to throw in the towel I'll just leave it at that...

It's strange how...eh nevermind.

-Eran
Matar Ronin
#26 - 2013-09-08 18:15:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Matar Ronin
Anabella Rella wrote:
In the interest of keeping this topic on point I'll not be responding to the insults and attempted moralizing directed at me. If you wish to berate me please either do so directly via appropriate media or start a separate thread. Thank you.
The voice of any Matari is welcome in any thread I originate, as are the voices of Gallente, Caldari, and Amarrians who have shunned, rebuked, and divorced themselves from the false teachings and the evil ways of the slavery cult empire. It is through the sharing of our common humanity in intellectual discourse that the ground work for the unification of all the people of New Eden shall form it's foundation for the eradication of the Amarrian Slavery Cult.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2013-09-09 06:27:39 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
I do not think we need a new Sanmatar.

I think we need a new Parliament and a new Prime Minister.

May I remind the good readers that Sanmatar Shakor came to power after a lot of government officials and parliament were awfully conveniently murdered and the Yulai incident threw us all off balance, right after the sitting Prime Minister had called for Shakor's removal from government? That he then called for removing the established system of government and its replacement by a vaguely defined "Tribal Council"?

What exactly is "tribal" about accepting without word the murders without trial of officials of the tribes, and then replacing the governing system of the tribes had agreed on by a system devised by one man's vision?





Kind of raises a few questions about the subsequent assassination of Midular, doesn't it?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#28 - 2013-09-09 09:32:30 UTC
Prod as you wish, but until further evidence or proof is made, "assassination" isn't what happened to Midular. If you want to speak conspiracy though, I would highly doubt it's mainline Matari who were responsible.

You know, it's kind of strange how the only time Blake makes a comment is when he has an obvious cheap-shot open to him. Perhaps if you had some real substance to your words, people may take you seriously...

-Eran
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#29 - 2013-09-09 12:31:44 UTC
Since we are listing interesting questions, here's another one: who was on the ships that died in Colelie, and who benefits from the deaths of Fleet personnel loyal to the Ray?

That said, Admiral Blake and Eran Mintor both can rest assored none of this will make us forget where the true enemy is.

Elsebeth
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#30 - 2013-09-09 15:16:14 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Since we are listing interesting questions, here's another one: who was on the ships that died in Colelie, and who benefits from the deaths of Fleet personnel loyal to the Ray?

That said, Admiral Blake and Eran Mintor both can rest assored none of this will make us forget where the true enemy is.

Elsebeth


In ourselves?

-Eran
Havohej
Cretus Incendium
Electus Matari
#31 - 2013-09-09 15:30:47 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
As I said in my good friend and colleague's thread, I'm loathe to bring these issues into the public arena. However, the actions of our leaders since they unceremoniously deposed the Midular administration have shown to be counterproductive to the overall strength and stability of the Minmatar nation.

By comparison, I suppose you would say that Midular was a beacon of hope and strength for the People, rather than an Amarr apologist and Federation cat's paw at best and an outright Traitor unworthy of her Voluval at worst?

It's been an eventful year, Pilot Rella. When will Electus Matari awake to the truth of the Republic and embrace more forward-thinking, pro-Minmatar views? I will never criticize -EM- for fighting in Colelie to avenge the murder of a Minmatar, but I will never stop criticizing you for defending the sins of a traitorous Prime Minister, either.

And you, Pilot Mintor... I had so much love and respect for you, once. To see you speak thusly now... it would've hurt me to my heart when I was flying in your fleets. Now it's merely a deeply disappointing turn.

Strike us like matches, 'cause everyone deserves the flames.

OOC Forums @ Backstage
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#32 - 2013-09-09 16:51:28 UTC
I am sure this is clear, but just to make sure:

Electus Matari stands with and for the Minmatar Republic. We serve its legal government and protect its spacelanes. Whether Karin Midular is the Prime Minister or Malaetu Shakor 'the Sanmatar' is irrelevant to this policy. Electus Matari does not require its members to hold any particular opinion about the current government or the officers and officials of its various organizations, as long as they work for the Matari nation itself.

The belief that in Midular's times everyone in Electus Matari (or Gradient) was her supporter is simply wrong.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Diplomat
Electus Matari
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#33 - 2013-09-09 16:52:28 UTC
On a more personal note: I miss you, Eran. Remember; it is never too late to come home.

Elsebeth
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#34 - 2013-09-09 17:00:00 UTC
I wasn't throwing in any metaphorical towel. People were deliberately ignoring/misinterpreting what I was saying, therefore, it was futile to repeat myself. I also didn't wish to further detract from the original point of Pilot Ronin's thread.

You're all free to think of me as you will. Ascribe to me whatever machinations you've dreamed up. I can't stop you and I really don't care. Nothing I can say will persuade you anyway and I have far better ways to spend my time than bashing my head into an immovable wall.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Havohej
Cretus Incendium
Electus Matari
#35 - 2013-09-09 17:06:29 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
I am sure this is clear, but just to make sure:

Electus Matari stands with and for the Minmatar Republic. We serve its legal government and protect its spacelanes. Whether Karin Midular is the Prime Minister or Malaetu Shakor 'the Sanmatar' is irrelevant to this policy. Electus Matari does not require its members to hold any particular opinion about the current government or the officers and officials of its various organizations, as long as they work for the Matari nation itself.

The belief that in Midular's times everyone in Electus Matari (or Gradient) was her supporter is simply wrong.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Diplomat
Electus Matari

If one's organization so firmly upholds views one does not agree with, such as supporting a government whether it's wrong or right, and that one goes whole-heartedly along with their organization, I should say that one lacks the courage of his or her convictions. Would this not be so?

Is it so of a number of Electus Matari's pilots?

You can protect the Republic's spacelanes - i.e., the Minmatar people - from pirates and enemy nationals without publicly toeing any party line or supporting toxic governments.

Strike us like matches, 'cause everyone deserves the flames.

OOC Forums @ Backstage
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#36 - 2013-09-09 17:36:23 UTC
I would not say that staying loyal to one's government even when one disagrees with some of its actions necessarily speaks of lack of courage or integrity. After all, the conviction that it is important for the Republic at this point of history to stand united even when we disagree is a conviction too.

Personally, I would estimate that sticking to it for ten years has taken me more moral courage than it has many to change employers, switch factions, or run off to the fringes whenever they disagree with something or someone, but obviously I am biased.

Elsebeth
Havohej
Cretus Incendium
Electus Matari
#37 - 2013-09-09 17:46:24 UTC
It is important for the "Republic" at this point in history to fall, the failed Gallente colonialism effort that it is/was, and be replaced with a truly Minmatar societal concept, built for the People, by the People, from the ashes up. Staying loyal to a government that no longer even has the ability to govern you, no matter how harmful their actions and policies are to the People they do govern, isn't a matter of moral courage, it's sheer bull-headed stubbornness.

While that is an admirable trait in Minmatars, it wants to be more judiciously applied, I think.

Strike us like matches, 'cause everyone deserves the flames.

OOC Forums @ Backstage
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#38 - 2013-09-09 22:07:59 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
On a more personal note: I miss you, Eran. Remember; it is never too late to come home.

Elsebeth


You're a sweetheart but it was too late the minute I opened fire on TLF while a member of Ishukone-Raata Sertelensah Kenzertis.

It was surely too late when I captured systems on behalf of the 24th IC.

Doesn't mean I don't sneak home every so often under an alias...

-Eran
Matar Ronin
#39 - 2013-09-10 05:11:54 UTC
Havohej wrote:
It is important for the "Republic" at this point in history to fall,
I can not disagree with this statement more completely, The Matari are the "Republic", make sure you separate current leadership's inadequacies from the fate of our people.

A people enjoying the benefits of self determination and liberty, we will not be perfect, and we should not accept excuses from our government or the self anointed Sanmatar. We need to hold both to a higher standard, and demand they toe the line or get out of the way. Our Minmatar Republic is not a monarchy, not a dictatorship, it is a Republic where the citizens hold the power and only allow our tribal representatives to exercise it for us, exclusively on our behalf. They are fiduciaries, duty bound that their every effort should be in selflessly working for the advancement and the security of the Minmatar Republic, unfettered by regional or tribal or personal conflicts of interest. Every vote they cast, every policy they support or oppose should be seen through the filter of how does it better serve the Minmatar Republic.

So, no sir, I am compelled by honor to correct you, for it is essential an immensely important at this point in history for the "Republic" to rise to it's potential for the sake of Matari everywhere and for the sake of all New Eden. The Minmatar Republic needs to stand strong and resolute as the primary emancipator of the enslaved, and the voice of the true moral conscious of New Eden, our patriotism and our faith demands no less.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#40 - 2013-09-10 05:13:03 UTC
Eran: If you ever need help in returning, give me a secure line. Many things are possible for capsuleers and we have sheltered worse.

Else