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Countering Dual Web Frigates.

Author
Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-09-07 21:07:02 UTC
Dual web frigates seem to be all the rage right now. Firetails, breachers, anything with 4 mids really. Even saw a dual web heron fit that is supposed to be an effective brawler. The advantages of dual webs is two fold. Not only can you dictate range over anything without two webs, you also have the option to GTFO if the fight isn't going your way.

Being the non-conformist that I am I'm racking my brain to figure out a way to counter these fits instead of jumping on the band wagon. Oh sure, you could kite them at 20k but I'm looking for a way to out brawl them and beat them at their own game. Is it possible or are the best brawling frigs simply the ones with the most mids?
Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-09-07 22:48:48 UTC
Koujjo Dian wrote:
Dual web frigates seem to be all the rage right now. Firetails, breachers, anything with 4 mids really. Even saw a dual web heron fit that is supposed to be an effective brawler. The advantages of dual webs is two fold. Not only can you dictate range over anything without two webs, you also have the option to GTFO if the fight isn't going your way.

Being the non-conformist that I am I'm racking my brain to figure out a way to counter these fits instead of jumping on the band wagon. Oh sure, you could kite them at 20k but I'm looking for a way to out brawl them and beat them at their own game. Is it possible or are the best brawling frigs simply the ones with the most mids?



Dual webs/scram are basically holding you in place so you just have to find some way to hit them from where you are. And that answer is a weapon system that can hit to web range. Use 125mm Rails, Rockets, or the Autocannon/Laser equivalent to that.

I've heard the Rail Comet/Incurses can take on those dual web frigs quite well.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2013-09-07 23:20:32 UTC
Web-kiters very much dislike droneboats.
Berendas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-09-07 23:40:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Berendas
I have also heard people speak highly of the rail Incursus. I don't have an exact fit, but other posters in different threads seem to gravitate towards 200mm plate + rep and 125mm rails though.

Edit: You could also be a colossal bastard and run a Tristan with a full flight of Hornet EC-300s.
Liam Inkuras
dead.Orbit
#5 - 2013-09-08 00:49:12 UTC
125mm Incursus: I owe BYDI isk for stealing this fit.

Highs:
125mm Railgun II (x3)

Mids:
1mn Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Lows:
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Small Ancillary Armour Repairer
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Rigs:
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I (x2)
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Drones:
Hobgoblin II

Keep at range 8km vs. anything with guns. Do w/e vs. dual web ships, you'll hit them regardless.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

amurder Hakomairos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-09-08 01:17:10 UTC
Neuts/drones/ECM

Problem solved
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#7 - 2013-09-08 01:24:09 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
125mm Incursus: I owe BYDI isk for stealing this fit.

Highs:
125mm Railgun II (x3)

Mids:
1mn Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Lows:
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Small Ancillary Armour Repairer
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Rigs:
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I (x2)
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Drones:
Hobgoblin II

Keep at range 8km vs. anything with guns. Do w/e vs. dual web ships, you'll hit them regardless.


Looks like a pretty kawaii fit, why the semi conductor though
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2013-09-08 04:21:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Berendas wrote:
Edit: You could also be a colossal bastard and run a Tristan with a full flight of Hornet EC-300s.

Your idea will be implemented shortly. Lol
Berendas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-09-08 04:48:08 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Berendas wrote:
Edit: You could also be a colossal bastard and run a Tristan with a full flight of Hornet EC-300s.

Your idea will be implemented shortly. Lol



I threw this together in EFT:

[Highs]
Light Ion Blaster II x2
Small Energy Neutralizer

[Mids]
1mn Afterburner
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier

[Lows]
F85 Peripheral Damage System
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plate
Power Diagnostic Unit II

Hornet EC-300 x5
Hobgoblin II x3

-Rigs to taste-

It's cap stable with the neut Twisted
Danny John-Peter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-09-08 09:20:59 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
125mm Incursus: I owe BYDI isk for stealing this fit.

Highs:
125mm Railgun II (x3)

Mids:
1mn Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Lows:
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Small Ancillary Armour Repairer
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Rigs:
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I (x2)
Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Drones:
Hobgoblin II

Keep at range 8km vs. anything with guns. Do w/e vs. dual web ships, you'll hit them regardless.



This is aight, however, use a Warrior instead of a Hob and I would say the Semi is a wasted slot, I run Burst Aer/Locus/Anti-Explo I think.
Seraph Castillon
Andromeda Corp
#11 - 2013-09-08 11:32:25 UTC
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Looks like a pretty kawaii fit, why the semi conductor though

So you can actually run your SAAR for the duration of the fight.
Dato Koppla
Did he say Jump
#12 - 2013-09-08 12:51:48 UTC
You can use something with a good projection within scram range like rockets so they can't take advantage of keeping you at the edge of scram range. However it is likely they will still GTFO when it's not going well for them which can't really be helped unless you go for something like the Hookbill which has the ability to fit double webs, rockets and tank.
Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-09-08 13:13:39 UTC
Good discussion so far. I'm curious though, after stacking penalties, exactly how much does two webs slow a target down?
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#14 - 2013-09-08 13:14:39 UTC
Seraph Castillon wrote:
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Looks like a pretty kawaii fit, why the semi conductor though

So you can actually run your SAAR for the duration of the fight.


Hi Seraph what have you been up to
Berendas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-09-08 13:49:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Berendas
Koujjo Dian wrote:
Good discussion so far. I'm curious though, after stacking penalties, exactly how much does two webs slow a target down?


For a pair of tech 2 webs, 60% of their max velocity twice over. After 1 Stasis Webifier II, the target is moving at 40% max velocity, and the second one slows them down by 60% of that number.

Assuming a 1000m/s velocity
1 web: 400m/s
2 webs: 160m/s


Edit: This math is an approximation. As it was pointed out, webs are stacking penalized. My estimate should be somewhere in the ballpark though.
Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-09-08 14:22:36 UTC
Berendas wrote:
Koujjo Dian wrote:
Good discussion so far. I'm curious though, after stacking penalties, exactly how much does two webs slow a target down?


For a pair of tech 2 webs, 60% of their max velocity twice over. After 1 Stasis Webifier II, the target is moving at 40% max velocity, and the second one slows them down by 60% of that number.

Assuming a 1000m/s velocity
1 web: 400m/s
2 webs: 160m/s


So there's no stacking penalty for multiple webs? Same for TDs?
Dato Koppla
Did he say Jump
#17 - 2013-09-08 14:24:12 UTC
Berendas wrote:
Koujjo Dian wrote:
Good discussion so far. I'm curious though, after stacking penalties, exactly how much does two webs slow a target down?


For a pair of tech 2 webs, 60% of their max velocity twice over. After 1 Stasis Webifier II, the target is moving at 40% max velocity, and the second one slows them down by 60% of that number.

Assuming a 1000m/s velocity
1 web: 400m/s
2 webs: 160m/s


I think thats slightly off as due to stacking penalties the second web will slown down by 52% of 400 rather than 60%. So that brings you down to a speed of roughly 191m/s from 1000m/s. So that means 2 T2 webs has roughly an 81% slowdown of your total speed if I'm not completely borking the math (I usually do).
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#18 - 2013-09-08 14:38:50 UTC
Weapons that apply DPS throughout scram zone and/or neuts to push the enemy off of you are effective.
Berendas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-09-08 16:47:21 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Berendas wrote:
Koujjo Dian wrote:
Good discussion so far. I'm curious though, after stacking penalties, exactly how much does two webs slow a target down?


For a pair of tech 2 webs, 60% of their max velocity twice over. After 1 Stasis Webifier II, the target is moving at 40% max velocity, and the second one slows them down by 60% of that number.

Assuming a 1000m/s velocity
1 web: 400m/s
2 webs: 160m/s


I think thats slightly off as due to stacking penalties the second web will slown down by 52% of 400 rather than 60%. So that brings you down to a speed of roughly 191m/s from 1000m/s. So that means 2 T2 webs has roughly an 81% slowdown of your total speed if I'm not completely borking the math (I usually do).


You're right. I've been out of the EVE loop for a bit and forgot that webs were stacking penalized. I don't know the exact percentage of the penalty, but your math looks to be correct.
Cpt Arareb
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-09-09 05:44:08 UTC
10mn afterburner
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