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Are extremes necessary to teach lessons in EvE, or not? Opinions?
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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-09-06 23:27:07 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Don't touch that, it's hot.


It's a good lesson. It just needs enough communication to get through properly.


But see, patience was ended after two years of hand holding. Hence the extreme lesson.

Being nice didn't work.

Being caring didn't work.

Fixing the mistakes for him didn't keep them from happening over and over.

So at what point is enough, enough?

I think you acted in a predictable way, considering the circumstances.

why did you keep up with this for so long ?
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#22 - 2013-09-06 23:32:34 UTC
This also seems the appropriate place to post a quote from an old corpmate that I've made a maxim of mine; "Never underestimate stupid."
Kharaxus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-09-06 23:48:14 UTC
Berendas wrote:
This also seems the appropriate place to post a quote from an old corpmate that I've made a maxim of mine; "Never underestimate stupid."


HAHA!!

"Difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits" - Albert Einstein
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#24 - 2013-09-06 23:49:34 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Don't touch that, it's hot.


It's a good lesson. It just needs enough communication to get through properly.


But see, patience was ended after two years of hand holding. Hence the extreme lesson.

Being nice didn't work.

Being caring didn't work.

Fixing the mistakes for him didn't keep them from happening over and over.

So at what point is enough, enough?

I think you acted in a predictable way, considering the circumstances.

why did you keep up with this for so long ?


Well, Solstice, I think I dealt with it so long because I truly believed that things were trending upward. We had a C2 with the alliance, were starting to make in-roads to our own self-sufficient incursion fleets (without the reliance of channels), and had started to put together our first doctrines for low-sec incursions. They had even gotten myself, with a preference for pvp as opposed to pve, back into running sites. Then I wake up this morning to find that everything we had worked to do for a month or more was undone, all because he wanted to be a prick who thought he knew all.

I suppose that is when I realized that I was metaphorically pissing into the wind. As I started to clear things out of hangars, I came to the realization that perhaps I was his biggest crutch, constantly smoothing out the ripples that he created. But then, because I have played the game with the guy for two years, I questioned whether my motives were justified, which led me here. And I am starting to find that I am not alone in believing what I did was the correct maneuver.

That being said, whether this question was extremely polarized or not, it would not change my course of action, because all that would do is show a lack of backbone on my part. Now the only course out of this for him, despite my literal years of warning, is with a price tag of either ships or isk. Because I feel that a lesson must be learned.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#25 - 2013-09-07 00:19:26 UTC
If you feel that way then by all means act like it. The only real concern are the consequences. You may now have a new adversary. As smart men have said, don't underestimate stupid.

Morally your actions require justification as much as an actor needs to justify he plays the villain: none. Your intentions were noble even, but for some reason you felt the need to share, probably because your contacts on that side have gone dark and there is no way to reflect on the matter with those truly involved. Only you can judge if the trust your destroyed was worth the gains.

On the neccessity of such extreme measures I can be short: no. It is just as valid to let your target linger in ignorance, while you fleece them for as long as you desire, then depart on good terms. This may give you a backdoor into the corp later should they amass an even larger sum of ISK and assets in your absense. You may also endlessly pursue white-knightery but it will prove futile.
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#26 - 2013-09-07 00:35:56 UTC
Kharaxus wrote:
Berendas wrote:
This also seems the appropriate place to post a quote from an old corpmate that I've made a maxim of mine; "Never underestimate stupid."


HAHA!!

"Difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits" - Albert Einstein


Exactly.
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#27 - 2013-09-07 01:51:54 UTC
I learned that I am a terrible CEO, and am terrible at almost anything leadership-related
loss related, got some people in without API-checking them whilst running a corp

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-09-07 07:44:46 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Personally, I learn my lessons from the mistakes of other people

People don't realize half the battle in EVE is learning form other people. If you play by yourself with little or no communication with other players, you will always make horribly decisions that lead to bad results.

Even if you don't belong to a player corp you should find an EVE online team speak or mumble server and listen in.

Ask questions and listen to their stories. I hear about people having a bad time all the time in EVE and learn not to do those things.

Which is why I value voicecomms quite a bit.

If you rely on text communication you are missing out on the wonderful conversations people have and you don't learn as much.


That really doesn't make much difference - text or voice. What counts is being interactive and involved - live style.

E-Uni has class recordings available for anyone to download and listen to. The same classes have literally been run for years and keep being run - yet listening to these classes and lecture tapes only gives so much vs actually being there and able to ask questions be that text or voice based.

It's being involved in the communications process that counts more than how such communications is conducted.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-09-07 10:24:08 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Well, Solstice, I think I dealt with it so long because I truly believed that things were trending upward. We had a C2 with the alliance, were starting to make in-roads to our own self-sufficient incursion fleets (without the reliance of channels), and had started to put together our first doctrines for low-sec incursions. They had even gotten myself, with a preference for pvp as opposed to pve, back into running sites. Then I wake up this morning to find that everything we had worked to do for a month or more was undone, all because he wanted to be a prick who thought he knew all.

I suppose that is when I realized that I was metaphorically pissing into the wind. As I started to clear things out of hangars, I came to the realization that perhaps I was his biggest crutch, constantly smoothing out the ripples that he created. But then, because I have played the game with the guy for two years, I questioned whether my motives were justified, which led me here. And I am starting to find that I am not alone in believing what I did was the correct maneuver.

That being said, whether this question was extremely polarized or not, it would not change my course of action, because all that would do is show a lack of backbone on my part. Now the only course out of this for him, despite my literal years of warning, is with a price tag of either ships or isk. Because I feel that a lesson must be learned.

You've made a few mistakes there, you might not see as such.

Your first and foremost mistake was not to realize that it was futile right from the beginning. Okay,
you might not have the experience in dealing with people to realize this early,
but it should have popped into your mind after he/they kept needing you to get things right.

The other side ... his/their (it's not entirely clear for me if you talk about one guy or many) side ...
is that he/they used you. You let yourself being used, even if you believe you just tried to help.
It's irrelevant if you believed that or not and even if you actually helped or not.

Fact of the matter is that you're the idiot wasting two years of your life with idiots that don't even deserve it.

And that corpmate of yours with the big mouth. For your own dignity, you should just keep shooting him.
Do it like i did. Demand a public apology and an *******-tax, so he learns to shut his mouth.

I know carebears like him. They all deserve to be smacked to silence.
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
#30 - 2013-09-07 12:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Eraza
some people never learn, it's just life
i'm not sure the lesson was nesscary, because i'm not sure he's the kind of person to learn it
he sounds like a short tempered fool, but on the other hand, we only have one side of the story

that being said, i prefer to never burn bridges, the only thing better then me getting everything i want, is:
when noone knows i got everything i wanted

keep on smiling, keep a friendly face, the idiots may be useful in the future :)

also, crime and punisment move incoming?
edit: also, on raging at alliances, i dont know what the other side of the story is, but i have rage quit on an alliance
the issue was ONE GUY, top pilot pirate, that was giving an alliance constant pain, and their solution:
whine at the GM hoping they can get him banned for harrasment
they tried this BEFORE trying to catch him in a trap, or getting some dedicated pvp people
usually i have sympathy for carebears but *** **** *******... ****
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-09-07 12:18:25 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Stuff...

Discuss.

Whatever....

Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo...
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