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KISS ... applied to highsec
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Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-09-05 22:36:58 UTC
..with all the calls for more incentive to go into low, to make 0.0 matter, to nerf highsec etc. etc., I was wondering if the simplest solution isnt actualy a pretty good one: ship and item restrictions for hi-sec

If highsec would be a place where only small ships would be allowed (let's say up to BC, no barges, no freighters) and where the market cant handle t2 equipment, implants, boosters, etc. etc. would that not instantly solve all issues ?

You could bring a t1 frig, destroyer, cruiser, bc, small transport and perhaps a 1 laser barge ... fit it t2, but shopping in lowsec mandatory in that case as the market cant handle t2 in high ..

Poor jita will die ... tradehubs will form in areas where uneasy alliances are formed because we all need stuff and a relatively safe market ... corporations would not only dump **** on the market but would need to keep that market attractive ..

Highsec would be training ground, lowsec would be where pirates roam and possibly extort people without 0.0 acces to buy modules and ships from the overpriced lowsec market.... 0.0 would be the new high-sec ... if the sov owners can handle the traffic. They would want your business ... as there wont be any highsec market to offload all the stuff their indies make to keep their alliance's isk coming in.


So yeah, maybe I just miss something realy obvious, and this will be another one of my infamous 'I should have shut up' topics .. but would this not solve all issues and only cause a little discomfort to everybody as droves of carebears overrun the few lowsec dwellers on their way to somewhat neutral 0.0 in order to keep business going, sprouting some fine pirate cartels in the process 'owning' low to the degree that noone can enforce the law there without huge presence, making them able to actually live of selling loot instead of reprocessing it ... etc. ?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-09-05 22:54:42 UTC
I want to see a more attractive lowsec and nullsec, but I don't think this is the way to go about it. It's too restrictive for EVE online. I'd prefer to see incentive to move operations to more dangerous areas, not restriction on what you're allowed to do. I also don't want to see highsec as a newbie area or lowsec/null as more 'endgame' areas. They should just be different places to be.

If a proposed solution attempts to fix a problem by making part of the game less fun, it's a poor solution.
Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-09-05 22:59:30 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
I want to see a more attractive lowsec and nullsec, but I don't think this is the way to go about it. It's too restrictive for EVE online. I'd prefer to see incentive to move operations to more dangerous areas, not restriction on what you're allowed to do. I also don't want to see highsec as a newbie area or lowsec/null as more 'endgame' areas. They should just be different places to be.

If a proposed solution attempts to fix a problem by making part of the game less fun, it's a poor solution.


It would not make it less fun ... it would restrict ship-class. Same content otherwise, except the easy markets for all gear you would ever want, that would be set up elsewhere, by players, kept safe by players and common interest .. and be temporary unavailable at other times due to conflict that noone would just sit out as everybody would have an interest ...

It would force people to play the game I guess...
Diablo Ex
Nocturne Holdings
#4 - 2013-09-05 23:25:21 UTC
The problem, to be honest, is not in Highsec at all. The reason why people do not go to Nullsec is because the Sov Holders and their NBSI policies.

If we did implement the OP's suggestions, you would find that the SOV Holders would not tolerate the traffic at all. There would be a continuous GANKFEST until the Highsec dwellers simply left the game. Sure, the PvP Killboard Whores would relish the feeding frenzy while it lasted, but Nullsec NBSI simply will not support immigrants.

Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5 - 2013-09-05 23:28:47 UTC
Quote:
It would not make it less fun ... it would restrict ship-class.


Ship class restrictions are massively un-fun, bro.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
ashley Eoner
#6 - 2013-09-05 23:32:47 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Ressiv wrote:
..with all the calls for more incentive to go into low, to make 0.0 matter, to nerf highsec etc. etc., I was wondering if the simplest solution isnt actualy a pretty good one: ship and item restrictions for hi-sec

If highsec would be a place where only small ships would be allowed (let's say up to BC, no barges, no freighters) and where the market cant handle t2 equipment, implants, boosters, etc. etc. would that not instantly solve all issues ?

You could bring a t1 frig, destroyer, cruiser, bc, small transport and perhaps a 1 laser barge ... fit it t2, but shopping in lowsec mandatory in that case as the market cant handle t2 in high ..

Poor jita will die ... tradehubs will form in areas where uneasy alliances are formed because we all need stuff and a relatively safe market ... corporations would not only dump **** on the market but would need to keep that market attractive ..

Highsec would be training ground, lowsec would be where pirates roam and possibly extort people without 0.0 acces to buy modules and ships from the overpriced lowsec market.... 0.0 would be the new high-sec ... if the sov owners can handle the traffic. They would want your business ... as there wont be any highsec market to offload all the stuff their indies make to keep their alliance's isk coming in.


So yeah, maybe I just miss something realy obvious, and this will be another one of my infamous 'I should have shut up' topics .. but would this not solve all issues and only cause a little discomfort to everybody as droves of carebears overrun the few lowsec dwellers on their way to somewhat neutral 0.0 in order to keep business going, sprouting some fine pirate cartels in the process 'owning' low to the degree that noone can enforce the law there without huge presence, making them able to actually live of selling loot instead of reprocessing it ... etc. ?


First off if Null sec doesn't matter then why are there so many people out there and why are people spending so much money to be out there?

There are already ship restrictions for highsec and those clearly aren't working in your opinion..


So we have tens of thousands of people spending hundreds of trillions in isk to play in nullsec and for some reason you think that's a failure and that we need to start forcing people into null???


Diablo Ex wrote:
The problem, to be honest, is not in Highsec at all. The reason why people do not go to Nullsec is because the Sov Holders and their NBSI policies.

If we did implement the OP's suggestions, you would find that the SOV Holders would not tolerate the traffic at all. There would be a continuous GANKFEST until the Highsec dwellers simply left the game. Sure, the PvP Killboard Whores would relish the feeding frenzy while it lasted, but Nullsec NBSI simply will not support immigrants.

Indeed highsec is fine. None of the OP's suggestions would produce anything positive other then pad the kill board whores...

Nullsec would require a complete reworking and I doubt the entrenched interests would like that. So instead we're back to the NERF HIGHSEC!!!
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#7 - 2013-09-05 23:36:15 UTC
Came for Detroit Rock City, leaving disappointed.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
ACE McFACE
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-09-06 00:30:53 UTC
That market thing makes no sense, why would vastly more developed space have trouble handling all the market orders of t2 items?

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-09-06 00:38:34 UTC
I've seen this suggestion posted before. I don't think it will work.

I think renting is the solution to people getting out into null sec.

That way you don't have to deal with alliance politics.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-09-06 00:53:30 UTC
This is almost as idiotic as the " LETZ HAF A PURGE DAY LOL" idea. Playing Eve is not compulsory, so you're not going to force people into playing in ways that they don't want to. You want people to go to low and null, you make low and null places that they want to be.

I really don't see why that should be such a hard concept to grasp. Roll
Oggat
The Adam's Family
#11 - 2013-09-06 01:02:15 UTC
I refuse to leave hi sec. I will stay in Deklein for ever.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#12 - 2013-09-06 01:09:54 UTC
Oggat wrote:
I refuse to leave hi sec. I will stay in Deklein for ever.


Confirming that Deklein is indeed the most high security space in the game. Except from the clutches of Harry Forever, of the knightly order of High Security Crusaders.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-09-06 12:10:04 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
The problem, to be honest, is not in Highsec at all. The reason why people do not go to Nullsec is because the Sov Holders and their NBSI policies.

If we did implement the OP's suggestions, you would find that the SOV Holders would not tolerate the traffic at all. There would be a continuous GANKFEST until the Highsec dwellers simply left the game. Sure, the PvP Killboard Whores would relish the feeding frenzy while it lasted, but Nullsec NBSI simply will not support immigrants.

there are zero reasons not to shoot people in your space and very good reasons you don't want people who aren't confirmed friendlies around while you're trying to do something

ashley Eoner wrote:
Nullsec would require a complete reworking and I doubt the entrenched interests would like that. So instead we're back to the NERF HIGHSEC!!!

there's good reasoning behind the calls to nerf certain aspects of highsec, reasoning that can't be dismissed by questioning motives
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#14 - 2013-09-06 12:17:21 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Came for Detroit Rock City, leaving disappointed.



Surely you meant Jita Rock City ?
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-09-06 12:21:21 UTC
I did not read your post at all but I like bunnies. And boobies of course but I guess I do not have to mention that....what else...pff...carry on.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#16 - 2013-09-06 12:22:47 UTC
Ressiv wrote:


It would force people to play the game I guess...



My God ! I just realized that for 3 years and 7 months, I have not been playing EVE !

Thank you my Savior ! Thank you !!!!!

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2013-09-06 12:28:22 UTC
Well at least this idea would kill jita.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-09-06 12:56:19 UTC
[serious answer]
Removing T2 stuff/mining barges/freighters from high-sec will hurt EVERYONE. Why? It's easy:
- there is no manufacturing in low/0.0 at all. High-sec produces 100% of stuff we can sell/buy on markets.
- there is no low-level ore mining in low/0.0. All tritanium, etc came from miners of high-sec
- there is nothing you would use your freighter in low/0.0 (it's too danger)

Restricting ship classes in high-sec: will break the game for many players.
- lvl4 missions without battleships? remove lvl4 from high-sec too?
- pvp is not fun when you do it with small and cheap ships. It's just too small thing to care about.
- Incursions without battleships? Not possible
- "pure-PVE" ships like Marauders, some Pirate/Faction battleships: they will disappear. They bad for PvP and too expensive to be toy you blow for fun.

Market in low-sec? Not possible. Eve Online players are too simple-minded to organize market in low-sec which can be used by wide group of players. 0.0 system deep inside blue-sea - Ok. But not low-sec.

Carebears come to low/0.0? What for? Carebears don't care about some stupid PvP. They live in areas they can evade PvP. Low-sec and 0.0 areas aren't places you can do efficient mission/Incursion running. They don't worth effort. Carebears will just leave the game.

Personally i would just leave (it's not that anyone will care anyway Lol). Because high-sec is the place you visit to see people in the game. You meet them, you scam them, you gank them, you duel them, you troll them, etc.... It's like big city in comparison with villages and forests. Low-sec/0.0 space only makes you kill anyone non-friendly. I haven't seen space outside of high-sec where it is possible to just sit docked and meet with different people (most of them you see first time) in local chat for days.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#19 - 2013-09-06 12:58:31 UTC
Ressiv wrote:
..with all the calls for more incentive to go into low, to make 0.0 matter, to nerf highsec etc. etc., I was wondering if the simplest solution isnt actualy a pretty good one: ship and item restrictions for hi-sec

If highsec would be a place where only small ships would be allowed (let's say up to BC, no barges, no freighters) and where the market cant handle t2 equipment, implants, boosters, etc. etc. would that not instantly solve all issues ?

You could bring a t1 frig, destroyer, cruiser, bc, small transport and perhaps a 1 laser barge ... fit it t2, but shopping in lowsec mandatory in that case as the market cant handle t2 in high ..

Poor jita will die ... tradehubs will form in areas where uneasy alliances are formed because we all need stuff and a relatively safe market ... corporations would not only dump **** on the market but would need to keep that market attractive ..

Highsec would be training ground, lowsec would be where pirates roam and possibly extort people without 0.0 acces to buy modules and ships from the overpriced lowsec market.... 0.0 would be the new high-sec ... if the sov owners can handle the traffic. They would want your business ... as there wont be any highsec market to offload all the stuff their indies make to keep their alliance's isk coming in.


So yeah, maybe I just miss something realy obvious, and this will be another one of my infamous 'I should have shut up' topics .. but would this not solve all issues and only cause a little discomfort to everybody as droves of carebears overrun the few lowsec dwellers on their way to somewhat neutral 0.0 in order to keep business going, sprouting some fine pirate cartels in the process 'owning' low to the degree that noone can enforce the law there without huge presence, making them able to actually live of selling loot instead of reprocessing it ... etc. ?



Is this where I say "posting in a stealth 'you just want easy null sec targets' thread". Because it's posts like these that feed the high sec dwellers paranoia and makes them believe anyone actually gives a damn about what they do in a video game....
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-09-06 14:05:00 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
The problem, to be honest, is not in Highsec at all. The reason why people do not go to Nullsec is because the Sov Holders and their NBSI policies.

If we did implement the OP's suggestions, you would find that the SOV Holders would not tolerate the traffic at all. There would be a continuous GANKFEST until the Highsec dwellers simply left the game. Sure, the PvP Killboard Whores would relish the feeding frenzy while it lasted, but Nullsec NBSI simply will not support immigrants.



What do SOV holders have to do with it?

I can't think of about 2 (I'm sure there are more) places in the entire game that high and null ever meet. In fact there are usually 7-8 low sec jumps to null sec at all.

Sov holders don't tolerate immigrants for a variety of reason.
1) Most ships can fit a cyno, from that cyno a LARGE number of people that are not friendly can jump through in anything from a blockade running to a super cap fleet. Personally I don't like repping structures that much, its not a fun activity, particularly when you have a hostile super fleet in range waiting to drop on you.

2) People sorely overestimate how many people a system can support. You get 15 dudes in a fully upgraded system you start running into competition for resourses, forget scanning, someone is already there, you get issues with people warping in etc etc. Not the least of which if I'm in an anomoly and a neutral warps in I'm shooting first and asking questions later. period.

Remember its fair game, there is no aggression mechanics to save you other than might makes right. So the ninja salvagers in high sec need not bother, they just tackle and go to town.

3) Have you ever lived in null? Its a fair amount of work to live out here, Things have to get to market, the markets are no close, the alliance's market systems are easy to crash (you have 2000 people using it not 200,000 a la Jita) POSs need fuel, bridges, need fuel, moving a battleship from a to b without a carrier is a trial that you MUST scout ahead, carriers need fuel....always. You can't just jump in your itty V and set autopilot you won't make it anywhere.

Why the hell should we just "share" because a bunch of people that don't want to be bothered with fleeting up to take, defend or maintain the infastructure want to come out and carebear it up?
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