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Wormholes

 
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Black Hole Systems

First post First post First post
Author
G0hme
Illusion of Flight
#141 - 2013-08-29 14:12:07 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
Hello everyone,

I would like some feedback.

Do you think black holes need change of effect? If yes then what new effects would you propose?

Thank you for your answers!



Change the Inertia penalty so that it is only applied when your Propulsion module is active.
Change the Missile velocity penalty to a Missile Flight Time bonus instead. (Yes this will add some ranged fights, but wormholers needs to learn that there are other buttons than just the Orbit on a wormhole.)

Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012

Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013

Got NPC API removed from Wormhole Space.

Feer Truelight
#142 - 2013-08-29 16:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Feer Truelight
Umm... Invert the current boni/mali?

You know... Event horizon and so. Everything gets slower near a black hole since the gravity is so strong. Even light at light speed can't escape!

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Cade Windstalker
#143 - 2013-08-29 17:57:25 UTC
Feer Truelight wrote:
Umm... Invert the current boni/mali?

You know... Event horizon and so. Everything gets slower near a black hole since the gravity is so strong. Even light at light speed can't escape!


Yes, but, and this is a big but, if you ignore how little we know about how physics actually changes in a strong gravitational field like that then Relativity states that we wouldn't actually notice any change in time or space, everything would be moving normally to us but an outside observer would see things slow down and almost stop the closer we got.

Of course, this thread isn't about Black Hole physics. Eve and Physics don't really belong together. P

This is about the possibility of tweaking the effects of Black Hole wormhole systems for gameplay reasons.
Maxisabe
Anoikis Equilibrium
Honorable Third Party
#144 - 2013-08-29 19:58:39 UTC
Sorry if this has already been proposed, didn't have time to look through all the posts, but its worth looking into the effects of reducing mass of ships

Mass Multiplier 0.95, 0.90, 0.85, 0.80, 0.75, 0.70

- It should be a simple change in line with other wormhole effects (HIC's can already modify there own mass)
- Adds another calculation when rolling holes
- Allows 4 caps to move out of a C5/C6 (but not in, and with a very restricted subcap fleet)
- Changes stats effected by the mass change

Downside

- possible unexpected side effects of lowered mass on non-HIC's?
Robert Harrison
Ronin Interstellar Industries
Weapons Of Mass Production.
#145 - 2013-08-29 22:20:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Harrison
Maxisabe wrote:
Sorry if this has already been proposed, didn't have time to look through all the posts, but its worth looking into the effects of reducing mass of ships

Mass Multiplier 0.95, 0.90, 0.85, 0.80, 0.75, 0.70

- It should be a simple change in line with other wormhole effects (HIC's can already modify there own mass)
- Adds another calculation when rolling holes
- Allows 4 caps to move out of a C5/C6 (but not in, and with a very restricted subcap fleet)
- Changes stats effected by the mass change

Downside

- possible unexpected side effects of lowered mass on non-HIC's?



I'll be honest... This is an intriguing idea... But I think the Bad Idea's thread is this way

The issue with it is that it would allow for unequal force projection through a wormhole. You can bring 4 dreads into my system, but I and everybody else can only bring 3 into yours. This would only be good for people living in these god-forsaken systems and bad for everyone else.

The current mechanic, while maybe not perfect, is at least fair.

Edit: Actually, on a +10% hole, if you were attempting to just seed capitals between a C6 BH and any other C6 (there is only one C6-C6 BH btw), you could seed as many as 5 capitals at a time. Also if you were committing to the fight this would allow for 3 dread, 1 carrier, and a considerable sub-capital fleet of t3's.
Cade Windstalker
#146 - 2013-08-29 22:44:23 UTC
Robert Harrison wrote:

I'll be honest... This is an intriguing idea... But I think the Bad Idea's thread is this way

The issue with it is that it would allow for unequal force projection through a wormhole. You can bring 4 dreads into my system, but I and everybody else can only bring 3 into yours. This would only be good for people living in these god-forsaken systems and bad for everyone else.

The current mechanic, while maybe not perfect, is at least fair.

Edit: Actually, on a +10% hole, if you were attempting to just seed capitals between a C6 BH and any other C6 (there is only one C6-C6 BH btw), you could seed as many as 5 capitals at a time. Also if you were committing to the fight this would allow for 3 dread, 1 carrier, and a considerable sub-capital fleet of t3's.


I don't really support the mass idea, just want to get that out of the way first.

However I don't think most people would shove that many capitals through because you can only bring N-1 back at a time, even though you can shove N through. Unless you're committing capitals to take a system over this is not particularly useful because the logistics of getting them back become painful.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#147 - 2013-08-31 19:42:24 UTC
What about reducing missile explosion radius and decreasing explosion velocity? Reduce flight time by 20% increase kinetic damage by 20%. Thematically appropriate system effects. Missiles become shorter ranged by the shrapnel hits like a train.
Krops Vont
#148 - 2013-09-03 19:58:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Krops Vont
Consider having a Mass addition to prop mods
Make it so black hole effect contains:
Affected stat Wormhole class
1 2 3 4 5 6
Ship resistances -10% -19% -27% -34% -41% -50% <- Questionable but could be lowered and applied to all 3
Ship velocity +25% +44% +55% +68% +85% +100% <- key feature of black holes should stay
Ship Propulsion mass +10% +19% +27% +34% +41% +50%
Inertia -25% -44% -55% -68% -85% -100%
Lock Range +10% +19% +27% +34% +41% +50%
Harvester module Cycle duration -25% -44% -55% -68% -85% -100%
(Salvagers, strip miners, ect)

Some other ideas:
Bonus to ships propulsion module mass/timer increase/decrease including MJDs. Reduce cap usage on prop mods?
Increase or decrease cycle time on specific/one type of module(s) or high/med/low slots
Reduction to Sensor strength/locked targets

Edit: Maybe consider the opposite of a Magnetar or flip the bonuses on the black hole making ships slow but better range?
Edit 2: Structure resist increase?
Also warp speed increase?

--==Services==--

Propaganda/Art/Media

Wormhole Finding & Selling

o/ Play for fun

The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2013-09-03 20:49:10 UTC  |  Edited by: The Spod
Make them traps.

Getting podkilled in BH makes you lose 100/200/300/400/500/600k sp by putting a negative training roadblock or removing skill level from your biggest sp skill until the dues are paid.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#150 - 2013-09-04 00:24:32 UTC
The Spod wrote:
Make them traps.

Getting podkilled in BH makes you lose 100/200/300/400/500/600k sp by putting a negative training roadblock or removing skill level from your biggest sp skill until the dues are paid.


Whoa, buddy, we don't want to buff them THAT much!
Cheesy Feet
The Hells Bells Club
#151 - 2013-09-05 09:29:07 UTC
Afuran wrote:
I think they should be left alone. I also think that more systems should have 'difficult' effects and not all systems should be beneficial.

I'll never get over this 'this should be 'fixed' and 'that should be made easier for me' mentality that is prevalent in Eve.

This game is meant to present the harsh reality of space combat. There should be harsh environments to challenge people to adapt and thrive in areas where the noobs or the faint at heart don't dare to go.

Make the harsher environments more lucrative in line with Eve's isk vs risk model. Something like better PI, moon mining (what!?), more challenging sleepers (but more salvage/loot) - that kind of thing.


This makes the most sense and gets my vote.
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#152 - 2013-09-05 13:20:55 UTC
Krops Vont wrote:

Harvester module Cycle duration -25% -44% -55% -68% -85% -100%
(Salvagers, strip miners, ect)


Woaa... Not sure if serious. Click button, get bacon in the extreme.
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#153 - 2013-09-05 22:10:18 UTC
Hi,

Please avoid trolling, thanks!

Thread cleaned slightly.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#154 - 2013-09-08 10:15:18 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Quote:
A sufficiently compact mass will deform spacetime to form a black hole, a region of spacetime from which nothing, not even light, can escape. Around a black hole there is a surface called an event horizon that marks the point of no return.
Black Hole Class 1 Class 2 Class 3 Class 4 Class 5 Class 6
Inertia Multiplier 1.25 1.44 1.55 1.68 1.85 2.00
Max Range Multiplier 0.90 0.81 0.73 0.66 0.59 0.50
Falloff Modifier 0.90 0.81 0.73 0.66 0.59 0.50
Missile Velocity Multiplier 0.90 0.81 0.73 0.66 0.59 0.50
Maximum velocity multiplier 1.25 1.44 1.55 1.68 1.85 2.00
Control range multiplier 0.90 0.81 0.73 0.66 0.59 0.50


So, from the look of things the original intent was to support MWD/AB PvP at basically knife range, except that's not exactly uncommon anyway and the speed change actually throws a lot of things out of whack as far as speed tanking goes. It's fun to like, zoom around in a cov-ops your first trip into one but I can't imagine living in one.

I do like the theme though but the other sites have much more direct buffs to certain styles of play. Some more than others, certainly, but the black hole is more of a fun toy than somewhere you would want to live because of how it functions.



How about the following:

I'm going for a theme around missile based bonuses. They tend to not get a lot of love in PvP or elsewhere and I think it would be cool to have a wormhole where the Phoenix really shines as a dread of choice.

Missile velocity increase: Not too much, say 5% or even 2.5% per class level but enough to make the Tengu and other missile boats have some really scary damage projection. Right now I don't feel the current decrease adds much beyond a "no HAM Legion fleets here" sign and some annoyance. Besides it conflicts rather annoyingly with the velocity bonus to everything else.

Explosion Radius: Decreased by up to 50%. Potential problems with dread-blap but possibly mitigated by the missile travel time, giving enemies in PvP the chance to react to the incoming missiles and overheat hardeners and mitigate damage.

Tracking: Minus 5% per level. This basically says if you're bringing gun-boats into this hole you'd better not rely on tracking or bring tons of webs. Moros, go home you're drunk.

Falloff: I'm somewhat partial to the falloff penalty but that might be too much of a hit to Arties which would, at this point, be the least affected turret system. The idea here is that space is a little distorted so your guns are pretty hit or miss.

Warp Velocity: This is more of a "just for fun" thing that may end up having interesting consequences. Lets let warp zip you around up to 50% faster. Maybe this will let your bomber beat that Noctis back to the exit hole, maybe not.

Velocity Bonus: After some mulling I think I'd leave this but at max 50% effectiveness. Yes, it hurts missile damage but in PvE you can web everything down anyway and the explosion radius boost helps mitigate it, especially with larger missiles. It supports a kiting setup which range boosted missiles would be absolutely scary in or short range brawls with heavy use of Webs.



Overall I think this would help give Black Holes a unique play style, similar to the other wormholes and allow owners of a Black Hole to make use of some less utilized ships in defense of their home (and for making tons of ISK).


Argh! This makes my head hurt. I have little knowledge on this side of New Eden. Is a black hole another name for wormholes or is it something different? Oops

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Cade Windstalker
#155 - 2013-09-08 23:54:03 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Argh! This makes my head hurt. I have little knowledge on this side of New Eden. Is a black hole another name for wormholes or is it something different? Oops


A Black Hole is one of a number of possible system-wide environmental effects that can be found in various Wormhole Systems. Just being present in the system affects your ship's stats. For more information I suggest the wiki page on wormhole effects.
CeNSeR
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2013-09-09 01:12:11 UTC
System effects change every dt or randomly so when you log in some research has to be done everytime you log in.

Use existing effects and add some new funky ones so you dont know what the hell is going on without spending some time to find out.
Thor66777
THE AESIR.
ROLLED IN.
#157 - 2013-09-09 03:37:44 UTC
Have the black hole affect cpu and powergrid output of a ship. I bet you could get some crazy fits going.
Cade Windstalker
#158 - 2013-09-09 04:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Thor66777 wrote:
Have the black hole affect cpu and powergrid output of a ship. I bet you could get some crazy fits going.


Which would immediately break if you left the system...

Massive defender's advantage too, especially in lower class wormholes.
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#159 - 2013-09-09 06:57:46 UTC
corbexx wrote:
would there be anyway to give black holes more statics

^^ this
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#160 - 2013-09-09 07:04:32 UTC
How about we make warp speed increase by 25 / 33 / 44 / 58 / 85 / 100 percent. This would assist with ganking everything really quickly, especially if you rigged up a ceptor (60 AU/s baby!), with a concomittant increase in capacitor cost to enter warp.

So you arrive with no capacitor to actually fight, but w/e. You can deal with it. *sunglasses*