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Crime & Punishment

 
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Why are suicide gankers hated so much?

Author
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#41 - 2013-09-03 21:45:11 UTC
Seiryu Voltaire wrote:
I personally don't have an issue with suicide ganking, as long as the ganker remains civil. There's nothing I find more annoying than a ganker who uses behaviour that I generally associate with preteen Call of Duty players.

While I myself am no longer a ganker, I can respect the fact that others find this way of life an enjoyable one, as I did as well when I was younger.
I've already suffered a couple of gankings on my new character for not paying attention while mining, and I was able to have a long and thoroughly amusing conversation with one of the brigands who got me.

I do however draw the line at pod-killing.
Recently I found myself mining in a very rich asteroid belt in Caldari space.
Now, prior to entering the asteroid belt I had no prior knowledge of Goonswarm's 'Mining Protection Program' or even where their mining rights areas were located.
So you can imagine my surprise when a random ship drops out of warp on top of me and turns my ship to scrap.

I didn't even get so much as a warning. Something along the lines of 'You are currently in an Asteroid field under the jurisdiction of Goonswarm. Those without a valid mining permit are not allowed to mine here. Leave now or your ship will be destroyed.' Hell, he could've even given me the option of buying into the program. I would've at least considered the blasted thing.
Not that it matters really, its done.

Now, I can deal with having my ship destroyed. It happens, and I can just move on.
But what is it people get out of pod killing? It doesn't gain you anything, and its really just an annoyance in the long run, but I just can't see why someone would do it.



Podkilling adds to the gankee's loss.

Which is exactly your goal if you are trying to prevent a certain type of ice being mined anywhere in game, just saying.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Nina Mink
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2013-09-04 02:25:28 UTC
I have been ganked myself twice now. Once a badger
with 800mill on salvaging loot. The other time i lost a hulk
while mining in high sec, and for the record i do not mine AFK.
I have a real Life, wife and kids a job and other hobbies. So
when it takes u 4months to save up for a hulk or 6months of salvaging.
Why do u think people hate gankers in high sec, a place where u
should be able to feel safe.
Kraillach
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-09-04 03:09:04 UTC
Nina Mink wrote:
Why do u think people hate gankers in high sec, a place where u
should be able to feel safe.


the illusion that HS is safe is just that.... an illusion.

but i do feel your pain, as a young miner myself i lost a few covetors to the gank.

i dont hate the gankers that got me i learnt my my mistake.

which was mainly don't mine during hulkageddon ROFL.

alas gankers are here to stay and ppl should take precautions to minimize loss.
Yi-Ming Gren
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2013-09-04 03:28:32 UTC
Nina Mink wrote:
Why do u think people hate gankers in high sec, a place where u
should be able to feel safe.


And here lies the problem, you want to be safe, stay docked you are safe there. Anytime you undock you can and (after getting hit twice) are a target and that is how you should see space as the cold hard vacuum it is, because no one can hear you scream (until you clone wakes up back at station).
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
The Bastion
#45 - 2013-09-04 05:50:08 UTC
I hafta confess ... suicide ganking can be a whole lot of fun. I'd only ever been a victim of this practice until not-very-long-ago when I spent some time with the CFC's miniluv program.

It was a very pleasantly surprise seeing the technical detail and the amount of effort that went into a good gank, along with the aftermath management of timers and loot and sec status etc. It also gave me a whole new insight into future reduction of the likelihood of again myself being ganked.

Before leaving CFC I'd suicide ganked miners solo, mission-runners with corp-mates, and freighetrs / jump freighters / orcas with the specialists. These all had different flavours and requirements. I hated some of the 'goon' smak-talk and the scam efforts during the gank buildup but otherwise it was an enlightening and educational part of eve to gain experience in.

I recommend giving it a try.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Lady Areola Fappington
#46 - 2013-09-04 06:28:22 UTC
The reason I think people hate gankers, is that we tend to be the true embodiment of non consensual PVP. You travel out to low.null, you know you've made an implicit agreement to be killed. Engage in a duel, it's the same. It may not be fair, but you agreed to it via your own action

The two groups that seem the most "hated", wardeccers and gankers, are the ones who bring a fight to you even when you aren't ready. We break the "unspoken rule" that some adhere to. Hence why you see a lot of folks screaming "G2 lowsec and fite U n00b".

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Yi-Ming Gren
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2013-09-04 06:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Yi-Ming Gren
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
The reason I think people hate gankers, is that we tend to be the true embodiment of non consensual PVP. You travel out to low.null, you know you've made an implicit agreement to be killed. Engage in a duel, it's the same. It may not be fair, but you agreed to it via your own action

The two groups that seem the most "hated", wardeccers and gankers, are the ones who bring a fight to you even when you aren't ready. We break the "unspoken rule" that some adhere to. Hence why you see a lot of folks screaming "G2 lowsec and fite U n00b".



But this is EVE, as soon as you un-dock you are consenting to PVP, Maybe it is my misunderstanding. I love reading about the New Order, and enjoy and respect the time some of them have taken to write the stories on the blog. Things like that is why I wanted to join EVE, it's what makes it sound fun.

Remember one comparison I read before, been threw so many pages I forgot where and who. Do these same people log into a FPS game (CoD or Battlefield) and AFK in a match 20 mins at a time, and than complain when everyone knifes them and steals their dog tags (likely taking odd liberties with the corpse)? There is no difference in my mind sorry, maybe it is me. As soon as you log on and un-dock, you are in the fight just like any other FPS. There are support roles (miners, logistics) and there is the guy that runs around with the pin on the hand grenade pulled, daring you to pop him.
Lady Areola Fappington
#48 - 2013-09-04 07:58:03 UTC
Yi-Ming Gren wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
The reason I think people hate gankers, is that we tend to be the true embodiment of non consensual PVP. You travel out to low.null, you know you've made an implicit agreement to be killed. Engage in a duel, it's the same. It may not be fair, but you agreed to it via your own action

The two groups that seem the most "hated", wardeccers and gankers, are the ones who bring a fight to you even when you aren't ready. We break the "unspoken rule" that some adhere to. Hence why you see a lot of folks screaming "G2 lowsec and fite U n00b".



But this is EVE, as soon as you un-dock you are consenting to PVP, Maybe it is my misunderstanding. I love reading about the New Order, and enjoy and respect the time some of them have taken to write the stories on the blog. Things like that is why I wanted to join EVE, it's what makes it sound fun.

Remember one comparison I read before, been threw so many pages I forgot where and who. Do these same people log into a FPS game (CoD or Battlefield) and AFK in a match 20 mins at a time, and than complain when everyone knifes them and steals their dog tags (likely taking odd liberties with the corpse)? There is no difference in my mind sorry, maybe it is me. As soon as you log on and un-dock, you are in the fight just like any other FPS. There are support roles (miners, logistics) and there is the guy that runs around with the pin on the hand grenade pulled, daring you to pop him.


The typical EVE player operates on this mentality: "OK, undocking is consent to PVP, but if I actually want to be involved with it, I'll go to lowsec. Highsec is safe because of concord. I can take risks here, because I'm protected".

Hence why gankers are hated. To steal your CoD metaphor: lets say everyone on a server just arbitrarily decides "pistols only". They tell everyone who logs in "Hey dude pistols only". Now, there's no policy or rule on the server that says "pistols only", it's just what everyone does. The ganker is the guy who grabs a shotgun and goes to town. The angst comes from when the pistols only guys complain to the server admin, and he goes "LOL I never said pistols only".

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Samoth Egnoled
Caldari Provisions
#49 - 2013-09-04 09:18:52 UTC
Anne McDonald wrote:
Samoth Egnoled wrote:
I love it when people start getting bent out of shape over Ganking, Saying its not 'Real PVP' yadda yadda yadda. IMO that just adds to the appeal.


Well what is defined by 'real PVP' because at its core it is just one player vs another player and many people who say well come to low/null and do some real PVP just means hey come to me and I will blob you 10-1 or whack you with ti-di where you have time to eat a three course meal between shots. If that is real PVP they can keep it Cool

Seiryu Voltaire wrote:
Stuff


I agree that some gankers out there are A-holes as are some miners and are some pirates as are some mission runners and I could be here all day writing 'communities' in game where there are A-holes, I don't usually speak to my customers but I do like to uphold some kind of service and my reaction can swing both ways if I gank someone and they open a convo I will always accept it and see what they have to say some cry and swear and to which I milk harvest and jar up their tears for future smelling, but some guys I kill are decent people and we chat for a while and some even add me as contacts.

As with podding the only reason I don't pod is to maximize my profits if I am podding everyone I would be out of high-sec faster then I could say but I have tags!!



Real PVP is defined by people that don't like the way you are playing. Also if you are Ganking for profit, the idea is to make money and not look for those fights that give you that PVP 'buzz' Right? Even though it is quite amusing :D

If i gank and someone convo's me, i will accept. If they want civility, i am civil. If they start throwing around insults i just stoke the fire tbh and milk them for mucho enjoyment.
Yi-Ming Gren
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2013-09-04 09:31:40 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
[quote=Yi-Ming Gren][quote=Lady Areola Fappington]The reason I think people hate gankers, is that we tend to be the true embodiment of non consensual PVP. You travel out to low.null, you know you've made an implicit agreement to be killed. Engage in a duel, it's the same. It may not be fair, but you agreed to it via your own action

The typical EVE player operates on this mentality: "OK, undocking is consent to PVP, but if I actually want to be involved with it, I'll go to lowsec. Highsec is safe because of concord. I can take risks here, because I'm protected".

Hence why gankers are hated. To steal your CoD metaphor: lets say everyone on a server just arbitrarily decides "pistols only". They tell everyone who logs in "Hey dude pistols only". Now, there's no policy or rule on the server that says "pistols only", it's just what everyone does. The ganker is the guy who grabs a shotgun and goes to town. The angst comes from when the pistols only guys complain to the server admin, and he goes "LOL I never said pistols only".



But in your case I consider that a miner, or hauler that did not tank his ship (but not AFK), for AFK miners (or those on Auto Pilot) I consider my example. I get they feel they are being wronged, but the point is you can tank your ship no one is stopping them. I see a un-tanked ship I see it as them taking a pocket knife into the zombie apocalypse. They go AFK, them it is the pocket knife is in thier shoe and they are dripping blood making thrashing noises. If I get ganked, I see it as I did something wrong, because not only did I not see it coming (by watching local) or see that ship that decide to park on my 6. If CCP starts add more tank to miners or haulers is that really going to fix anything? Just means we are going to have more people that afk mine or AP 22 jump runs without fear of getting touched. I can see it now, High Sec rocks will be picked clean two or three hours after reset, than they will complain there are no rocks to mine when they get on. What next? add more rocks or shorten the spawn time? I see John's point and I started this game as a miner (until the rocks started to whisper to me, suggesting I burn them all).
Anne McDonald
Sandman are here
#51 - 2013-09-04 14:00:20 UTC
Yi-Ming Gren wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
[quote=Yi-Ming Gren][quote=Lady Areola Fappington]The reason I think people hate gankers, is that we tend to be the true embodiment of non consensual PVP. You travel out to low.null, you know you've made an implicit agreement to be killed. Engage in a duel, it's the same. It may not be fair, but you agreed to it via your own action

The typical EVE player operates on this mentality: "OK, undocking is consent to PVP, but if I actually want to be involved with it, I'll go to lowsec. Highsec is safe because of concord. I can take risks here, because I'm protected".

Hence why gankers are hated. To steal your CoD metaphor: lets say everyone on a server just arbitrarily decides "pistols only". They tell everyone who logs in "Hey dude pistols only". Now, there's no policy or rule on the server that says "pistols only", it's just what everyone does. The ganker is the guy who grabs a shotgun and goes to town. The angst comes from when the pistols only guys complain to the server admin, and he goes "LOL I never said pistols only".



But in your case I consider that a miner, or hauler that did not tank his ship (but not AFK), for AFK miners (or those on Auto Pilot) I consider my example. I get they feel they are being wronged, but the point is you can tank your ship no one is stopping them. I see a un-tanked ship I see it as them taking a pocket knife into the zombie apocalypse. They go AFK, them it is the pocket knife is in thier shoe and they are dripping blood making thrashing noises. If I get ganked, I see it as I did something wrong, because not only did I not see it coming (by watching local) or see that ship that decide to park on my 6. If CCP starts add more tank to miners or haulers is that really going to fix anything? Just means we are going to have more people that afk mine or AP 22 jump runs without fear of getting touched. I can see it now, High Sec rocks will be picked clean two or three hours after reset, than they will complain there are no rocks to mine when they get on. What next? add more rocks or shorten the spawn time? I see John's point and I started this game as a miner (until the rocks started to whisper to me, suggesting I burn them all).


CCP adding more tank will not stop suicide ganks I sometimes have a hauler get away in structure because they tanked their ship and that is fine, but I generally go for haulers that carry enough to pay for 2 tornados and still have 200mill spare, I usually have a friend in a nado with me just in case situations like this arise more tanks will just make people feel safer and carry more making it viable for more people to group together
Baaldor
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#52 - 2013-09-04 17:36:07 UTC
Nina Mink wrote:
I have been ganked myself twice now. Once a badger
with 800mill on salvaging loot. The other time i lost a hulk
while mining in high sec, and for the record i do not mine AFK.
I have a real Life, wife and kids a job and other hobbies. So
when it takes u 4months to save up for a hulk or 6months of salvaging.
Why do u think people hate gankers in high sec, a place where u
should be able to feel safe.


wait it takes you 4 to 6 months to buy your self a 200 mil hull? Bud you are doing it wrong.

But seriously, I never think of what you do or who you are..because I don't care. You are just about the same thing as one of those red crosses everyone shoots at and happens to spurge in local like a dungar bot.

It is a game, it has no real bearing on anything outside of the nerd rage in your head.
Yi-Ming Gren
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2013-09-05 00:59:38 UTC
But in your case I consider that a miner, or hauler that did not tank his ship (but not AFK), for AFK miners (or those on Auto Pilot) I consider my example. I get they feel they are being wronged, but the point is you can tank your ship no one is stopping them. I see a un-tanked ship I see it as them taking a pocket knife into the zombie apocalypse. They go AFK, them it is the pocket knife is in thier shoe and they are dripping blood making thrashing noises. If I get ganked, I see it as I did something wrong, because not only did I not see it coming (by watching local) or see that ship that decide to park on my 6. If CCP starts add more tank to miners or haulers is that really going to fix anything? Just means we are going to have more people that afk mine or AP 22 jump runs without fear of getting touched. I can see it now, High Sec rocks will be picked clean two or three hours after reset, than they will complain there are no rocks to mine when they get on. What next? add more rocks or shorten the spawn time? I see John's point and I started this game as a miner (until the rocks started to whisper to me, suggesting I burn them all). [/quote]

CCP adding more tank will not stop suicide ganks I sometimes have a hauler get away in structure because they tanked their ship and that is fine, but I generally go for haulers that carry enough to pay for 2 tornados and still have 200mill spare, I usually have a friend in a nado with me just in case situations like this arise more tanks will just make people feel safer and carry more making it viable for more people to group together[/quote]


Now that sounds like fun, and profitable all at the same time. Let me know if you need another.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#54 - 2013-09-05 13:54:10 UTC
Nina Mink wrote:
I have been ganked myself twice now. Once a badger
with 800mill on salvaging loot. The other time i lost a hulk
while mining in high sec, and for the record i do not mine AFK.
I have a real Life, wife and kids a job and other hobbies. So
when it takes u 4months to save up for a hulk or 6months of salvaging.
Why do u think people hate gankers in high sec, a place where u
should be able to feel safe.

If you feel safe in HiSec, you're doing EVE wrong. When you undock, you immediately become liable to non-consensual PvP - Except that you *have* consented - by undocking. Failure to understand that is failure to understand the core of the game. Failure to understand that leaves you complaiscent and vulnerable.

I too, have a real life, a wife, kids, dogs, friends, a house, a mortgage, and all the other impedimentia of a normal life... And only one computer over which the four of us wrangle. Still, I manage to put together stacks and stacks of gankalysts, create production streams, and blast both living humans and NPCs out of space. It's not hard. 4 months to gain a Hulk? You're doing something VERY wrong. Two somethings. 1) Flying what you can't afford to lose, and 2) failing to fully utilize your assets to create wealth.

Perhaps this isn't the game for you?
Shakira Khalessi
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2013-09-05 14:13:12 UTC
Yes, I confess I am a ganker.

I get paid by various local industrialist carebears that don't want to directly engage in killing their fellow capsuleers. They pay me and my ganker mates to kill certain targeted competition to their economic interests. Of course miners and haulers are the obvious targets for these behind the scenes economic titans.

I have no problem being a pawn in the game the indistrialists play since it pays well and provides countless hours of pleasure in a game I enjoy with my mates.Twisted
Omar Alharazaad
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#56 - 2013-09-05 15:45:55 UTC
Shakira Khalessi wrote:
Yes, I confess I am a ganker.

I get paid by various local industrialist carebears that don't want to directly engage in killing their fellow capsuleers. They pay me and my ganker mates to kill certain targeted competition to their economic interests. Of course miners and haulers are the obvious targets for these behind the scenes economic titans.

I have no problem being a pawn in the game the indistrialists play since it pays well and provides countless hours of pleasure in a game I enjoy with my mates.Twisted


This I like... it makes one wonder how many of those raging in local over the ganks are secretly funding the very crimes they publicly decry. PVP takes many forms in this game, and while the suicide gank seems unfair at times it is still one of the very viable forms. The hit may come down for RP reasons, just business, politics, or something else... Most of those outraged likely have an overdeveloped sense of honor (a luxury only the dead can afford), or they see themselves as that smoking wreck and suddenly realize that the world they are in is dangerous. (holy crap, you mean cigarettes are BAD for you?!?)

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Mike Adoulin
Hell House
Hell Dawn
#57 - 2013-09-05 19:58:22 UTC
I gank because my pod tells me too.

MY POD.

ITS DEFECTIVE.

ARGHHH.

Shocked

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#58 - 2013-09-05 21:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
If somebody's ganking haulers, that's not at all hate-able. That's pure piracy-- evaluate the target's value compared to your ship's value, decide whether or not a suicide gank is worth it. Takes some strategy tactical decision making.

Suicide ganking miners-- what's the point? They can't shoot back. You're not getting very valuable loot from them. (Or are you? I don't miner gank and I don't fly miner ships, so I don't know.) It just seems like you're shooting frogs in a barrel. And not doing anything that involves much skill or risk. Other than the risk that you'll run into a tanked miner and not get the kill.
Raptors Mole
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-09-05 21:18:08 UTC
If you define gankers as the guys who blow up mining/hauling ships in Hi Sec.

I think people hate gankers because they are effectivly "taking candy from a kid". Anyone can do it. All you need is some understanding of game mechanics.

Kudos to the ones that hit the jackpot though, a 5 bill profit from popping a hauler is a nice win. The ones who make a decent living from ganking gain some gruding respect I suppose.

Mostly though, I think gankers are viewed along similar lines as rectal dandruff. Quite rightly so.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#60 - 2013-09-05 21:58:13 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Shakira Khalessi wrote:
Yes, I confess I am a ganker.

I get paid by various local industrialist carebears that don't want to directly engage in killing their fellow capsuleers. They pay me and my ganker mates to kill certain targeted competition to their economic interests. Of course miners and haulers are the obvious targets for these behind the scenes economic titans.

I have no problem being a pawn in the game the indistrialists play since it pays well and provides countless hours of pleasure in a game I enjoy with my mates.Twisted


This I like... it makes one wonder how many of those raging in local over the ganks are secretly funding the very crimes they publicly decry. PVP takes many forms in this game, and while the suicide gank seems unfair at times it is still one of the very viable forms. The hit may come down for RP reasons, just business, politics, or something else... Most of those outraged likely have an overdeveloped sense of honor (a luxury only the dead can afford), or they see themselves as that smoking wreck and suddenly realize that the world they are in is dangerous. (holy crap, you mean cigarettes are BAD for you?!?)

I don't know. That sounds a little like a "Wouldn't it be cool if...?" story to me.