EVE General Discussion

When I poker I'm willing to bluff, but not to steal peoples chips when they take a toilett break. Once things move outside of the immediate game (and trying to infiltrate a corporation will almost certainly involve social contact that goes beyond shared ingame actions), lying to people is just a crappy as it is in real life.

Yes, I know the trailer where someone infiltrates a corp and robs them blind. I am aware that it is one intended way to play this game. If it's supposed to be the way to play this game, I'm not supprised that there are issues with player retention. "Be an ******* online" is a gamedesign for a limited target audience.

No you cannot have my stuff, I'll stick around until another MMO manages to implement an interesting crafting/trading/industry system and will just continue to avoid nuisances like gankers instead of fighting them on their terms.

...true collors there... you want a risk free industry mmo where the pvp element is competition in trading/manufacturing ... I dunno if those are around .. you might like X3 .. it's got a very nice economics simulator .. you might like it.

I dont need your stuff .. you can keep those retrievers.

Actually, you've stumbled on something here that would really help you get your head around it if you let it.

Let's face it, games are abstractions ... whether it be backgammon or chess or EVE. Even though technology has allowed games to be much more detailed in terms of color texture and complexity in terms of many items pieces etc, chess is still a pretty complicated game. Chess is a war game.. or was the best approximation in an easy to keep track of way that stood the test of time.

Ok.. I won't go too far off course here.

My point is, that the "does not support that kind of game-play" is far more complex that it might sound. Like chess is one sort of abstraction for combat, EVE stumbles into other approximations that create a "feeling of danger" wherever you go. High sec is supposed to be safer.. and it is.. but there is that random element AND.. it is Very much the purpose of the game to have people Choose where they locate based on safety etc.

The fact that you stumbled on moving to places that were more safe.. and had to give active thought to that is a very very important part about the "universe" being more of a virtual world. Not all places are equal. Yes, you come out ahead poring over maps.. (some third party like dotlan help a lot and official EVE blogs and news sites mention some of the most reputable third party sites)

The depth of the game relies on having things like choosing an optimal location and risk reward subjective calls to have different people come to different conclusions about what cost of extra jumps to a trade hub is worth a lower chance of being ninja looted or ganked.

Choices of where to live also help you start recognizing names in local.. and getting some feel like "oh they live here too... even if you never talk to some people over months or years, you become familiar with them.. they're neighbors you wave at but don't know their names... a big step above strangers.


So.. I won't wax on too much more. Yes, there are some holes in the structure of the abstraction. Yes, disposable characters and alts that only log on to get you and never give you a chance to fight back are somewhat less perfect than your desire to take revenge. Yet, as I started, any game is going to have some limitations to how perfect of an abstraction is.

The fallout, as long as people don't get obsessed with the idea that "some real person out there on the web got me", is that. "this system is dangerous in ways we cannot counter.. it would be smart to find another solution" works very well.

Sometimes it takes two or three or four moves over a period of months. When you look back on it.. that has really given your game experience a history.. made it a "saga" . I look back on the times I was in a beginner orientated high sec corporation and continually war decced by far higher skill point players fondly.... very very fondly. The almost had us disband... but through the process many of us became good friends.

When I fly around our old bases.. in Yuzier in Derelek, and in Ghesis in kador... when I remember fights I had as a 3 week old player getting ganked running missions and then trying to pitchfork in t1 cruisers agaings 30 million sp players in hacs.... or spider tanked in battle ships, they are fond fond memories indeed. Of course we almost always lost. Of course in one sense we were miserable preyed on... yet... without that there wouldn't be the sense of place and time and change.

And.. there wouldn't be the glorious memories like this one... where after many weeks of being fodder.. we came together organized in our rag tag group and actually won a big encounter through cooperation ..... so sweet it was.. and so sweet it still is......

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=4670390

and some like this...

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11350898

yeah.. it took 14 of us to kill a few of them lol but they knew what they were doing and we'd been prey for weeks as both "noob griefer" groups followed us from Derelik to ghesis in an unrelenting way to break us.

I still play with a number of the guys on the kill mail.. found them after a 2 year break. I played with most for 2 years continuously after those events.. following many of them on to null sec for a while which some liked more than others etc... but

.. even the griefing serves a greater purpose in this grand abstraction of a universe with a history and tecture to it.

Its is a perfect abstraction of space wars? no.. neither is chess a perfect abstraction of medieval warfare. But.. even the "shortfalls" create good fallout

... if you don't get all butt-hurt concentrating on "a bully" picking on you instead of "how can I find a way to claw a spot in this dangerous universe"

I think OP, that there is no fix.

Compare it to the real world.

Suicide gankers are like mass murderers. Sandy Hook for example. In this case you were affected by this suicidal mass murderer and want revenge. However you can't get it, because as far as you know, that person is gone. So now just like in real life you want to get revenge but don't know who to inflict it apon. There's a chance someone else, perhaps an organization was behind it, but you don't know.

So this usually causes two ideals to appear.

One, the revenge on a probably group that might have had a hand in the suicide gank. So you go to war with that certain group hoping to get the revenge. IRL one could say our kneejerk reaction was going to war with "Terrorists".

Two, instead of revenge you want safetymeasure to prevent further instances of it. IRL peoples kneejerk safety measure was to ban weapons.

In this game you can't so easily go to war and win with pirates or "Terrorists" and you won't be able to ban weapons in this game and you don't want better safetymeasures. You claim to want the anonyminity to stop, but anonyminity isn't the problem. The problem in this game world is that a character, "a person", can be made instantouesly that seems to have no ties to any other group.

So sadly the only fix in this game that doesn't really fix the anonymity problem is to simply buff certain ships tankability or to enable a pvp on/off system in certain High Sec areas.

pvp on and off switch

Unless you can loot a BP off a wreck, salvage the wreck, and create that item from the blueprint.

Just because something is easier does not mean it's the only thing.

That's a good point. Such as with sov stations, pirates should be denied access to highsec stations. Balance no?

My mission agent disagrees with this.

the ganking is not just a problem for miners in hisec ther is alt alliance doing wardec of neew and old corp to just gank legaly in hi sec.this is a problem for corp whid mostly new players,the new players geting ganked to often either quit corp or stop playing the game.incrise price to 500m to war dec will give som protection for most smal corps when it coms to wardec of this type.

Out of curiosity, did you not realize you were ******* your corp or did you not care? Not judging, just curious.