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EVE Central is now dead?

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DRGaius Baltar
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-09-04 17:03:21 UTC  |  Edited by: DRGaius Baltar
What gives CCP??? Item prices are not pulling from the API no longer?? Is this another "We forgot to add this in the patch notes" Discuss

Here
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2 - 2013-09-04 17:10:17 UTC
sad_trombone.wav

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#3 - 2013-09-04 17:16:29 UTC
DRGaius Baltar wrote:
What gives CCP??? Item prices are not pulling from the API no longer?? Is this another "We forgot to add this in the patch notes" Discuss

Here

Sad
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2013-09-04 17:21:20 UTC
…or maybe EVEMon is a crashy mess right now, and they haven't updated their own data scraping software to match the new format?
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#5 - 2013-09-04 17:24:36 UTC
Some tools are working fine.

IPH for example.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Ethereal Night
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#6 - 2013-09-04 17:27:06 UTC
DRGaius Baltar wrote:
Discuss


No.

Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool, or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant: "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the Rule of Honor.
Sable Blitzmann
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-09-04 17:29:17 UTC
DRGaius Baltar wrote:
What gives CCP??? Item prices are not pulling from the API no longer?? Is this another "We forgot to add this in the patch notes" Discuss

Here


Eve Central doesn't use the API servers for it's prices. CCP doesn't provide a market API. EVE central uses the EMDR network, which gets it's market data from EVEMon and other market uploaders. These market uploaders get their data from scraping the cache files of the client.

With Odyssey 1.1, CCP has changed the format of their cache. They have every right to do so. They have said before that cache scrapers are not guaranteed to not be affected by changes, or notified that such changes took place, as the cache is not designed to be a data source for third party developers. Scraping the cache files for market data is even strictly against the EULA (debatable, depending on who in CCP you ask), although they do not enforce it.

Unfortunately, we will have to wait until the various projects update their cache scrapers to work with the new format. This may or may not be trivial, depending on what changes CCP made.
Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
#8 - 2013-09-04 17:33:01 UTC
Sable Blitzmann wrote:
Unfortunately, we will have to wait until the various projects update their cache scrapers to work with the new format. This may or may not be trivial, depending on what changes CCP made.


Updating Reverence is at the top of my todo list, but I am currently not in the same country as my dev environment >.>

╦......║...╔╗.║.║.╔╗.╦║.╔╗╔╦╗╔╗

║.╔╗╔╗╔╣.╔╗╠..╠ ╠╗╠╝.║╠ ╠╝║║║╚╗

╩═╚╝║.╚╝.╚╝║..╚╝║║╚╝.╩╚╝╚╝║.║╚╝

Got Item?
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-09-04 17:35:34 UTC
CCP, just provide a market API for Christ's sake. Very few people are going to spend hours a day to manually scroll through market data at each of the hubs if cache scraping isn't going to work. Then your dynamic market will stagnate and become the domain of the few with enough isk to motivate others to spend hours a day manually scrolling through the market data.

Don't ban me, bro!
Sable Blitzmann
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-09-04 17:43:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Sable Blitzmann
Entity wrote:
Sable Blitzmann wrote:
Unfortunately, we will have to wait until the various projects update their cache scrapers to work with the new format. This may or may not be trivial, depending on what changes CCP made.


Updating Reverence is at the top of my todo list, but I am currently not in the same country as my dev environment >.>


So I've read. When will you be getting back? If I had any experience in Reverence I would help out with it. =(

Do you have any idea what specifically was changed?
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-09-04 17:43:10 UTC
How would something that gathers info and then "looks" at it be against the EULA? Now if it was trying to send something back to the server or game then I could see the problem.
Sable Blitzmann
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-09-04 17:48:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sable Blitzmann
Tron 3K wrote:
How would something that gathers info and then "looks" at it be against the EULA? Now if it was trying to send something back to the server or game then I could see the problem.


Ask CCP Stillman. I don't believe it's in violation, however what I believe doesn't matter. The EULA is designed to be vague enough for CCP to call the shots at what they believe is and is not against it. There was a whole fiasco about it a few months ago. Stillman is the one I've seen that more or less states it's against the EULA, but that they don't enforce it. I'm too lazy to look up where he said it.

EDIT: i lied. It was way easy to find. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2899276#post2899276

Note that that statement hit devs like a brick wall, as it came out of nowhere and was before confirmed to not violate the EULA.

EDIT2: And here's another link where they plan to update the EULA, which may or may not be a good thing (they may outright say cache scraping is against the EULA), but also states that currently they wont enforce it. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2900665#post2900665

But again, I stand by my statement that they are within their right to modify the cache without putting it in the patch notes, especially if something came up that required it to be modified to ensure stability (with new items / features / what have you). Since the cache is not an official third party data source, us developers can't expect them to tell us jack squat about changes.
Tseehn Marhn
Rat Duck
#13 - 2013-09-04 20:05:04 UTC
I use Eve Cache Parser for my software, and it looks like quite a bit has changed. It still seems to pull the right cache files; I looked at four items in the market, and the parser returned four cache files, but all the data is goofy. I only got five of the 13 or 14 sell orders listed, and I didn't get any buy orders at all. The orders I did get were contained in odd data types - like a dictionary where the key/value pair were both order data. However this behavior might be due to ECP parsing the cache files incorrectly now. The key thing missing is that there used to be a data structure named 'lret' that had all the order rows in it - lret is no longer there.

Until Desmont or another update their parser libraries, my development has halted. Given the fact that major developers have not found a solution yet, I'm guessing the changes are fairly extensive - perhaps cache scraping for market data is no longer viable.

If it is workaround-able, and the parser library devs take awhile to update their libs, I may have to write my own. In which case, does anyone know how the data is stored in the files? I'm assuming it's just serialized from Python.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-09-04 20:09:42 UTC
Tseehn Marhn wrote:

If it is workaround-able, and the parser library devs take awhile to update their libs, I may have to write my own. In which case, does anyone know how the data is stored in the files? I'm assuming it's just serialized from Python.



You sure CCP didn't start encrypting it? Some data still visible?
Hawelt
Warpspeed Shipping Inc.
#15 - 2013-09-04 20:23:01 UTC
Tron 3K wrote:
How would something that gathers info and then "looks" at it be against the EULA? Now if it was trying to send something back to the server or game then I could see the problem.


I've played around with Reverence, crawled markets using IGB javascript, EMDR and such things in the past.

So far the responses to my past GM tickets essentially said that they don't mind until you build a system that interacts with or issues market orders on its own without user interaction.

EVE is a sandbox and so far its been quite benefitial to have reasonably accurate market information available.
When there is a big interest in services like eve-central it seems like a bad idea to pull the plug on the data source without some discussion.
Uila Tsi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-09-04 20:25:36 UTC
CCP does not encrypt it. I use Eve Cache Parser as well only probably a bit different than everyone else. My market program still works fine so it it should be possible to still pull what you need.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2013-09-04 20:30:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CCP - removing spreadsheets from EvE...*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

just uninstalled because nothing works...

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-09-04 20:53:13 UTC
Minmatar hits T5 in faction warfare, LP store calculators stop working the next day.

LOL
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#19 - 2013-09-04 21:03:03 UTC
Well they did change the entire way item data was presented in game, not surprising it has massive carry over effects.
Tseehn Marhn
Rat Duck
#20 - 2013-09-04 21:31:11 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Tseehn Marhn wrote:

If it is workaround-able, and the parser library devs take awhile to update their libs, I may have to write my own. In which case, does anyone know how the data is stored in the files? I'm assuming it's just serialized from Python.



You sure CCP didn't start encrypting it? Some data still visible?


Yes, some data is still visible. I got five seemingly random orders for an item I looked at, but all the data was there for those orders. I don't think CCP will ever encrypt the cache; I could be wrong, but I'd assume the extra overhead isn't worth it. Eliminating the cache altogether seems like a more likely approach.


Uila Tsi wrote:
CCP does not encrypt it. I use Eve Cache Parser as well only probably a bit different than everyone else. My market program still works fine so it it should be possible to still pull what you need.


Would you mind telling how you use it? I set my includeMethodsFilter to "GetOrders", which seems to return the correct cache files, but searching through all the parsed data in those files I don't find all the orders. In particular, the 'lret' dictionary key no longer exists, which used to contain all the rows. It seems either the parser is not parsing correctly (and thus not returning all the orders), or not all the cache files are being found.
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