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Extremely concerned about the state of smack-talk in Eve.

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-08-31 23:41:12 UTC
Don't see why you can't trash talk people without being a little classier than a COD player about it. Fat jokes are poor form and have no class. If I wanted classless trash talk, I'd go play COD.

Also, I do believe that making weight jokes can be classed as bullying. There might be a tonne of people that don't care about their weight, but one day you'll call the wrong person "fat". A few things could happen here: that person may commit self-harm of one form or another due to increased levels of insecurity about their weight, or they may take action, be it legal or otherwise, against online harassment. Either way, this person is going to draw negative attention to EVE Online in the media.

So, to respond to your "I don't want no vanilla 'it's in the EULA so don't do it' reason, I want something with depth', it probably exists as a no-no in the EULA for the following reasons: a) it's harassment, and if you're harassing people you're a bad person and you should feel bad, and bad people don't get to play EVE, and b) CCP probably don't want the negative attention that something that could be construed as online bullying would develop.

Anyway, smack talk only matters, and is only effective, when you can back it up. "**** or get off the pot" I say. There ya go, there's another poop joke for ya.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-08-31 23:46:59 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Don't see why you can't trash talk people without being a little classier than a COD player about it. Fat jokes are poor form and have no class. If I wanted classless trash talk, I'd go play COD.

Also, I do believe that making weight jokes can be classed as bullying. There might be a tonne of people that don't care about their weight, but one day you'll call the wrong person "fat". A few things could happen here: that person may commit self-harm of one form or another due to increased levels of insecurity about their weight, or they may take action, be it legal or otherwise, against online harassment. Either way, this person is going to draw negative attention to EVE Online in the media.

So, to respond to your "I don't want no vanilla 'it's in the EULA so don't do it' reason, I want something with depth', it probably exists as a no-no in the EULA for the following reasons: a) it's harassment, and if you're harassing people you're a bad person and you should feel bad, and bad people don't get to play EVE, and b) CCP probably don't want the negative attention that something that could be construed as online bullying would develop.

Anyway, smack talk only matters, and is only effective, when you can back it up. "**** or get off the pot" I say. There ya go, there's another poop joke for ya.


Frankly, I shouldn't have to dance around the mental instabilities of others. Often times, in this game, I don't. If you scam someone and they send you pictures of your eveguy's name carved into their forearm, you don't get banned. They probably do. Why should I have to have someone's potential body image problems at the front of my mind when contemplating what names to call them?

Class in smack-talk is like honor in fighting to me. Just something for people to pretend they're above. I have no such conceit. I've seen very classy people lose their minds and say the worst stuff. If some fat jokes aren't classy enough for you, I've gotta wonder what you say when you become totally unhinged, personally, because it's probably ugly and darker than pitch black.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#23 - 2013-08-31 23:47:26 UTC
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
Explain to me why I'm inviting a ban when I tell someone mid-battle that they're fat enough to anchor a POS around?

What happened to those halcyon days where, between goatse spam, fofo's, and z0r chains, I could tell someone that their ass is so wide it's showing up on my overview as a celestial?

I doubt you could convince me otherwise, and I'm certain that smack talk should not only be allowed, but encouraged.

If your skin is too thin for a bit of a thrashing you're basically saying you're too weak for pvp and maybe you need to go back to hi-sec where your fat butt can disappear inside a L4.

Thoughts?


I thought the Bee's sent all the meme drones to Test when it was created....did they miss one?

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#24 - 2013-08-31 23:48:29 UTC
Now that you ment..

Oh wait, it's a goon.

Shut up, fatty.
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-08-31 23:49:36 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Now that you ment..

Oh wait, it's a goon.

Shut up, fatty.


I'm offended.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#26 - 2013-08-31 23:51:03 UTC
Don't worry too much about it Bob. It's just another goon trying to divert attention away from the fact that Goons now rent nullspace.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#27 - 2013-08-31 23:51:52 UTC
Greenmachine Sale wrote:
I believe in smack talk but not on the forums where information should be acquired

We were talking about local

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-08-31 23:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Don't see why you can't trash talk people without being a little classier than a COD player about it. Fat jokes are poor form and have no class. If I wanted classless trash talk, I'd go play COD.

Also, I do believe that making weight jokes can be classed as bullying. There might be a tonne of people that don't care about their weight, but one day you'll call the wrong person "fat". A few things could happen here: that person may commit self-harm of one form or another due to increased levels of insecurity about their weight, or they may take action, be it legal or otherwise, against online harassment. Either way, this person is going to draw negative attention to EVE Online in the media.

So, to respond to your "I don't want no vanilla 'it's in the EULA so don't do it' reason, I want something with depth', it probably exists as a no-no in the EULA for the following reasons: a) it's harassment, and if you're harassing people you're a bad person and you should feel bad, and bad people don't get to play EVE, and b) CCP probably don't want the negative attention that something that could be construed as online bullying would develop.

Anyway, smack talk only matters, and is only effective, when you can back it up. "**** or get off the pot" I say. There ya go, there's another poop joke for ya.


Frankly, I shouldn't have to dance around the mental instabilities of others. Often times, in this game, I don't. If you scam someone and they send you pictures of your eveguy's name carved into their forearm, you don't get banned. They probably do. Why should I have to have someone's potential body image problems at the front of my mind when contemplating what names to call them?

Class in smack-talk is like honor in fighting to me. Just something for people to pretend they're above. I have no such conceit. I've seen very classy people lose their minds and say the worst stuff. If some fat jokes aren't classy enough for you, I've gotta wonder what you say when you become totally unhinged, personally, because it's probably ugly and darker than pitch black.


Frankly, if you haven't figured out why antagonising someone's weight problems is not only a bad idea, but an actual terrible thing to do that has nothing to do with whether you're on EVE or not, then I'm not surprised that the smartest thing you can think of for smack talk is fat jokes.

Tell me, how unhinged is it to have no regard for the welfare of another human being? Making a fat joke at someone who might actually have insecurities about their weight is just bad, and it really does make you a bad person. Ganking them doesn't, blobbing them doesn't, etc, because that's the game, and that's the game they've chosen to play. They aren't playing it, however, to be randomly reminded of an issue that isn't really your place to remind them of. Are you a doctor? Nutritionist? Clinical psychologist? And what makes you think someone would be on EVE for weight advice?

Just because someone else's weight problem is not your problem doesn't mean that by antagonising it, you're not becoming part of the problem. And when you become part of the problem, someone will go out of their way to solve that part of the problem. Entirely your choice, dude.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#29 - 2013-08-31 23:54:48 UTC
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Now that you ment..

Oh wait, it's a goon.

Shut up, fatty.


I'm offended.


And I didn't even get to make fun of your Mom Sad
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#30 - 2013-08-31 23:56:11 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Don't worry too much about it Bob. It's just another goon trying to divert attention away from the fact that Goons now rent nullspace.


You mean that excuse they used when they boot licked CCP in to nerfing all their enemies fleet doctrines?
Addavar Thearox
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2013-08-31 23:57:58 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Greenmachine Sale wrote:
I believe in smack talk but not on the forums where information should be acquired

We were talking about local


Someone obviously should start reading OPs before they shiptoast.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#32 - 2013-08-31 23:58:26 UTC
:thejoke:

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-09-01 00:02:33 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Don't see why you can't trash talk people without being a little classier than a COD player about it. Fat jokes are poor form and have no class. If I wanted classless trash talk, I'd go play COD.

Also, I do believe that making weight jokes can be classed as bullying. There might be a tonne of people that don't care about their weight, but one day you'll call the wrong person "fat". A few things could happen here: that person may commit self-harm of one form or another due to increased levels of insecurity about their weight, or they may take action, be it legal or otherwise, against online harassment. Either way, this person is going to draw negative attention to EVE Online in the media.

So, to respond to your "I don't want no vanilla 'it's in the EULA so don't do it' reason, I want something with depth', it probably exists as a no-no in the EULA for the following reasons: a) it's harassment, and if you're harassing people you're a bad person and you should feel bad, and bad people don't get to play EVE, and b) CCP probably don't want the negative attention that something that could be construed as online bullying would develop.

Anyway, smack talk only matters, and is only effective, when you can back it up. "**** or get off the pot" I say. There ya go, there's another poop joke for ya.


Frankly, I shouldn't have to dance around the mental instabilities of others. Often times, in this game, I don't. If you scam someone and they send you pictures of your eveguy's name carved into their forearm, you don't get banned. They probably do. Why should I have to have someone's potential body image problems at the front of my mind when contemplating what names to call them?

Class in smack-talk is like honor in fighting to me. Just something for people to pretend they're above. I have no such conceit. I've seen very classy people lose their minds and say the worst stuff. If some fat jokes aren't classy enough for you, I've gotta wonder what you say when you become totally unhinged, personally, because it's probably ugly and darker than pitch black.


Frankly, if you haven't figured out why antagonising someone's weight problems is not only a bad idea, but an actual terrible thing to do that has nothing to do with whether you're on EVE or not, then I'm not surprised that the smartest thing you can think of for smack talk is fat jokes.

Tell me, how unhinged is it to have no regard for the welfare of another human being? Making a fat joke at someone who might actually have insecurities about their weight is just bad, and it really does make you a bad person. Ganking them doesn't, blobbing them doesn't, etc, because that's the game, and that's the game they've chosen to play. They aren't playing it, however, to be randomly reminded of an issue that isn't really your place to remind them of. Are you a doctor? Nutritionist? Clinical psychologist? And what makes you think someone would be on EVE for weight advice?


Local chat is also a part of the game. As is interacting with others. Is the line really drawn in the sand here, with a single chat window? But it's somehow different when, using other game mechanics, I elicit a similar or worse emotional response? Is someone who is fat being sadbrains that they've been called fat by some nobody in local, is better or worse than the suicidal ideation i've witnessed from scam victims? One is sanctioned play, but calling someone a mean name in local is verbotten? What's really going on here?

My whole concern is that CCP's apparent concern over what I say in local to my enemy, who knows I'm their enemy, is not consistent with the rest of the game.

For example:
I can target a person, and schmooze them, and drain them of every single asset they're dumb enough to part with. He whines about being suicidal gets mad, calls me a bunch of insane names, reports me, begs me, basically goes through the stages of grief, and as long as I don't confirm with him that he's a fat idiot, that's fine, regardless of the emotional state my actions have put him in.

Yet I can't call a person a mean name in local, because it might hurt their feelings or be thought of as offensive, and that will earn me a ban?

Tell me, which is more likely to send a person off the deep end, cause major offense, and cause the mentally unstable to become totally unhinged?
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#34 - 2013-09-01 00:02:42 UTC
Sigh... If you want to continue your quest for your perceived right to break the rules you agreed upon in the fist place, please do not do so on these forums. Or in game for that matter.

To play it formal: Thread locked.

The rules:
10. Discussion of warnings and bans is prohibited.

Such matters shall remain private between CCP and the involved user. Questions or comments concerning warnings and bans will be conveyed through email or private messaging. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy and as such you are not permitted to publicize private correspondence (including petition responses and emails) received from any of the aforementioned parties.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#35 - 2013-09-01 00:13:16 UTC
I have to agree with both Remiel and the OP here.

Smack talk is psychological warfare that is not only used in game but has been used throughout history in many wars to date. Hell the media is one massive smack talking front to a country when it is at war with another country.

Smack talk is a neccessary evil used in EVE and its to be expected.

However, that said, there are plenty ways to do it without offending the person or breaking the TOS. There's no need to personally call someone an effing r - tard or calling them fat or whatever, there are plenty of ways to do it without just plainly being rude. There is a massive massive dirrerence between putting smacktalk in local and being a complete ********...

Some people's average density is 2x10^-21kgm^3... Twisted

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
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