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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

First post
Author
Dave Stark
#301 - 2013-08-31 15:35:45 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
chum.


no.


That's not very sociable of you.


I'm not a very sociable person, or maybe it's just you.


Perhaps logic just angers you?


if it did, you'd never manage to anger me.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#302 - 2013-08-31 15:35:53 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Cost is a product of balance, not a factor in it.


If one ships requires vastly more material of the same type than another, one might rightly conclude that the price is not entirely driven by balance?


Price is driven by supply & demand. It's the result of the player controlled economy.


It's not though? By far the most significant factor in trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by CCP.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#303 - 2013-08-31 15:36:21 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
chum.


no.


That's not very sociable of you.


I'm not a very sociable person, or maybe it's just you.


Perhaps logic just angers you?


You haven't been very forthcoming with logic.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#304 - 2013-08-31 15:36:22 UTC
Funniest thread ever. Watching people refusing to accept the irrefutable :) thanks for all the laughs

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#305 - 2013-08-31 15:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
S Byerley wrote:
If one ships requires vastly more material of the same type than another, one might rightly conclude that the price is not entirely driven by balance?

Balance is not the only factor in determining the price, no, especially not for individual ships (since the mineral basket may be skewed in one direction or another due to the current meta regarding a completely separate category of ships, thereby making even high-power/high-demand ships very cheap).

It wouldn't be much of a product if there only was one factor, now would it? Blink

Quote:
It's not though? By far the most significant factor trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by
…the players. The last time the cost of those materials was determined by CCP was back when trit was capped by NPC-made shuttles.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#306 - 2013-08-31 15:37:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:

So you think we've been talking about the combat capabilities of a freighter vs catalysts all this time. Ill let you in on a little secret, freighters are basically giant shuttles, they have no combat capabilities so why would we have been talking about them in regards to that kind of balance in a freighter gank thread?

Nobody said anything about combat abilities, stop trying to change the subject.

All of the following was said by yourself, and refers to ship balancing. It has been snipped because the forum only allows 5 quotes in a post.
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter ..... Being able to suicide a capital ship with a few cheap dessies repeatedly in High goes against that principle, devalues and imbalances the ship involved and is socially bad for EvE ..... Lol only their millions of EHP ..... How about every time a cap ship is solo it reverts to 300,000 EHP. If it dies (cus it was ratting) its the pilots fault for not having remote reps, scouts, webbers and instantly deployables cyno alts ..... Perhaps they were speaking about mining barges. In EvE every ship has base build costs, compare any ship with its base build cost vs another, the one with the higher build cost will have more survivability and perform substantially better ..... If you fail to see how build cost -> survivability -> gankabilty don't correlate I have to assume you don't actually play EvE.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#307 - 2013-08-31 15:38:19 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:

Perhaps logic just angers you?


if it did, you'd never manage to anger me.


Are you sure? People who rant about trolling are usually angry.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#308 - 2013-08-31 15:38:52 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Funniest thread ever. Watching people refusing to accept the irrefutable :) thanks for all the laughs


I have to agree with you. I really enjoyed refuting your arguments.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#309 - 2013-08-31 15:39:11 UTC
Lucy Hastmena wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship?

ok you dont get it, no problem i explain it again, also for the really slow thinking people like you.

This is not about a fight, this is about SUIZID gankers. There will be no Fight or something like that. There is even not a fault of the Freighter Pilot necessary like jumping into low sec or undocking during war. And of Course you dont need 15 Pilots, just one Player with ISBoxer will kill you and you dont have even the Chance to do anything. You cant warp away, you cant fit tank, you cant scout ( they bump you until their gank squad logged in) There is absolute nothing you can do about.

Tell this guy your story, guess he needs to know:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19440276

OMG people are at risk when they undock!?!?! Shocked

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Dave Stark
#310 - 2013-08-31 15:39:45 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:

Perhaps logic just angers you?


if it did, you'd never manage to anger me.


Are you sure? People who rant about trolling are usually angry.


i didn't rant about it; i just pointed out that you were terrible at it.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#311 - 2013-08-31 15:41:40 UTC
S Byerley wrote:


It's not though? By far the most significant factor in trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by CCP.


Build cost is not determined by CCP. The bill of materials is, but the cost of those materials is determined by the player market.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#312 - 2013-08-31 15:42:03 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

So you think we've been talking about the combat capabilities of a freighter vs catalysts all this time. Ill let you in on a little secret, freighters are basically giant shuttles, they have no combat capabilities so why would we have been talking about them in regards to that kind of balance in a freighter gank thread?


Nobody said anything about combat abilities, stop trying to change the subject.

All of the following was said by yourself, and refers to ship balancing. It has been snipped because the forum only allows 5 quotes in a post.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter ..... Being able to suicide a capital ship with a few cheap dessies repeatedly in High goes against that principle, devalues and imbalances the ship involved and is socially bad for EvE ..... Lol only their millions of EHP ..... How about every time a cap ship is solo it reverts to 300,000 EHP. If it dies (cus it was ratting) its the pilots fault for not having remote reps, scouts, webbers and instantly deployables cyno alts ..... Perhaps they were speaking about mining barges. In EvE every ship has base build costs, compare any ship with its base build cost vs another, the one with the higher build cost will have more survivability and perform substantially better ..... If you fail to see how build cost -> survivability -> gankabilty don't correlate I have to assume you don't actually play EvE.

Lol what specifically doesn't relate to the topic at hand? Or are you hoping to obfuscate?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#313 - 2013-08-31 15:42:48 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
i didn't rant about it; i just pointed out that you were terrible at it.


You made the claim in several consecutive posts, leading me to believe you were fixated.

I apologize if there was a misunderstanding.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#314 - 2013-08-31 15:43:22 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
S Byerley wrote:


It's not though? By far the most significant factor in trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by CCP.


Build cost is not determined by CCP. The bill of materials is, but the cost of those materials is determined by the player market.

So the amounts on the bill of materials was determined by whom if not CCP?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#315 - 2013-08-31 15:44:07 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
S Byerley wrote:


It's not though? By far the most significant factor in trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by CCP.


Build cost is not determined by CCP. The bill of materials is, but the cost of those materials is determined by the player market.

So the amounts on the bill of materials was determined by whom if not CCP?


Are you illiterate?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#316 - 2013-08-31 15:44:43 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:

Perhaps logic just angers you?


if it did, you'd never manage to anger me.


Are you sure? People who rant about trolling are usually angry.


i didn't rant about it; i just pointed out that you were terrible at it.

Give up Dave, he has 90% resists to logic, common sense, fallibility and decent posting.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Dave Stark
#317 - 2013-08-31 15:45:03 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i didn't rant about it; i just pointed out that you were terrible at it.


You made the claim in several consecutive posts, leading me to believe you were fixated.

I apologize if there was a misunderstanding.


that's ok, it's evident there's a lot that you misunderstand.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#318 - 2013-08-31 15:45:50 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Tippia wrote:
…the players. The last time the cost of those materials was determined by CCP was back when trit was capped by NPC-made shuttles.


This might be a valid differentiating factor if T1 ships weren't all built out of, more or less, the same material; and if availability and yield weren't also determined by CCP.

If you like: are material requirements a factor in balance?

One might call materials consumed in the process a cost or even a price of manufacture.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#319 - 2013-08-31 15:46:47 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
S Byerley wrote:


It's not though? By far the most significant factor in trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by CCP.


Build cost is not determined by CCP. The bill of materials is, but the cost of those materials is determined by the player market.

So the amounts on the bill of materials was determined by whom if not CCP?


Are you illiterate?


Correct. Hence, most of this thread.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#320 - 2013-08-31 15:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Lol what specifically doesn't relate to the topic at hand? Or are you hoping to obfuscate?

You tell me, you're the expert at it.

I'm not saying that ship balance is unrelated to the topic at hand, you're denying that you were talking about it, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack