EVE General Discussion

Its a highsec war. In a Highsec war you can call in other corps to be including and allow combat between those extra corps. With my idea that would not be allowed so the gankers cant just call in an overwhelming force.

If that is the best you can comprehend something i really dont want to know how you function.

Locator agents, use them, love them.


Can't fight back, or won't fight back? There's a fairly large distinction between the two.

So let me get this straight. You post on an alt, ***** about people ganking and boo hoo not enough consequences, then bother to post (on an alt) all the "accomplishments" which boil down to:

1. I have more alts. (uhuh)

2. I have isk. (so does everyone else)

3. Ive been in charge of people! (This makes you relevant how?)

4. Ive held sov! (Again the whole I'm a null sec sock puppet I hold sov = I'm gud!)

5. I know how to fight.

Really? Are you sure? Did you swap mining lasers for maximum dps? IF you understood game mechanics and truly knew how to fight, you'd be out seeking revenge instead of making a ***** fest here bawwing about the evil wittle gankers!

6. Age means NOTHING if all you do is sit and mine rocks all day. Stop thinking playing since such and such a date makes you a competent player.

I hope I kill you. Burn your pod. Loot the wreck, and put your corpse on contract while placing a bounty on you just for lulz.

Dont like that? What are you going to do? Oh that's right. Nothing. Which is why every last one of you lazy spoiled carebears need to burn just like all of high sec.

Yes, the OP points quite squarely towards “won't”.

As a miner, in the small chance that you will be ganked if you carefully look for a spot and pay attention, what's stopping you of having an extra person in fleet who is there to protect you or repair you? That's fighting against it, whats stopping you from building a fleet and make a roam into null to hunt their miners and missioners? Run and hide should be possible, and you can do something about it.

Problem is:

- You cannot be "industrialist only" and fight back. In theory, mechanics provide the way, but anyone in either side, with some good years of experience, knows how to cheat the current mechanics in order to get away with anything.

- Security status IS a joke, it serves to its purpose only for inexperient players (not only new, because you can be a inexperienced veteran).

- The OP states clearly that what he says is meant to apply to the new player perspective, and also clearly states that we, experienced industrialists, know many ways to avoid, minimize or mitigate loss.

- The main reason for the post is not to ask for safer conditions to industrialists, but to ask for equally unsafe and responsible conditions for gankers and general fighting pilots. You need much more skill, caution and resources to conduct a simple 3 pilot mining operation in hisec than you need to conduct a one man gankage.

- EVE market is not player driven. Combat pilots and general war pilots can keep their actions regardless of industrialists, because there are plenty of NPC corps to support them. You dont need player made ships, player made modules or player made ammo, just run missions and get them. For low scum gankage, you can easly train an alt to produce that, because with dozen days of skill training you are fairly efficient in producing goods to engage in hisec gankage. So there is no way, even if all industrialists unite, to drive the market and make "market war" to get back to the gankers in a strict "industrial" philosophy.

- CCP advertise that you can do many things in EVE without engaging in pvp combat. That is a lie. It is the most common thing in eve for new players to be led into unwanted pvp interaction. People will say that you dont see many new players being blown up, and that is true, because from a long time now most new accounts logged in are old players returning, alts or bots.

It is clear the OP message, there is no problem with current EVE gameplay for us, we still having billions of ISK hourly from our activities. What he states and I agree is that it is easier to be a ganker scum getting rid of new players than it is to be a serious player, and attract more people. We want the game to be hard to everyone equally.

Solution: don't be “industrialist only”. If you absolutely have to, at least acknowledge the fact that there are plenty of ways to get back, including player-provided services for precisely that purpose. There is no way to cheat the mechanics (or, if there are, it's called an “exploit” and gets you banned). Either way, any claim that it's somehow impossible (or even difficult) to get back is disingenuous and uninformed.

No. Security status is a tool. It provides mechanism for all players — new and old — to get back at attackers and/or to slow said attackers down.

So it's a request to make life safer for the gankers, then? After all, they can be attacked anywhere at any time without any mechanical penalties and repercussions on the attacker, whereas attacking the industrialists imposes all kinds of punishments.

Oh… Ok. Sorry. Giving up now.
I mistook this for a serious post at first, but yeah, you got me. 10/10.

He blew you up. You blew him up. That's about as even as it gets.

No, but wardecs do, so the tools are once again already at your disposal. There's a distinction between just getting even and going all blood-feud:y vendetta on someone.

The problem for new players is more one of being suckered into horrible newbie collection corps with incompetent leadership who teach them all the wrong things…

And that's exactly the problem. He gets to choose where he attacks me AND where I can hurt him. That's as even as it gets, and that's simply not enough to make it worth to "fight back". Unless the agressor is stupid (or plays according to some code of "honor"), highsec agression favors him to an unreasonable degree.



Again, a wardec is pointless if I can't wardec his "infrastructure", industrialists, haulers, whatever. A wardec against a three-alt-ganker corp is about as worthless for revenge as it gets. And what's wrong with a bit of bloodfeud? Sounds very sandboxy to me



In most online games I've played "crappy newbie corps" help with new player retention, if not by teaching players something valueable at least by providing a nice place to hang out. In EvE they paint a bullseye on the new player and, if anything, hurt player retention.

No, you still get to choose where you can hurt him. The “problem” is that people either choose the most obvious (and ineffectual) way to do so… or just to not do it at all. There are plenty of avenues open to you and the trick lies in figuring out which work. Just saying that it can't be done because [some reason or the other] is really no different than saying that you don't really want to.

You can, just like he could do the same to you (and just did).

There's nothing wrong with it. You just can't expect “you slap me, I roflstomp you and everyone within 7 degrees of separation” to be covered by the same mechanics as the “you slap me, I slap you back” kind of retaliation.

Yeah, EVE is not like that. Around here, you are already in a crappy newbie corp where you can hang out. The problem — the thing that paints a bullseye on them — are the hideously awful (to the point of almost qualifying as griefing) player corps who scoop up new players and proceed to fill their poor heads with braindead nonsense. Of course, some of that goes on in the actual n00bcorps as well, and that's a problem too, but at least then they still enjoy some of that NPC corp protection.

Hell, as maligned as they often are, even an all-newbie corp (the classic, “I just trained this skill, let's start a corp, guys!”-corp) is better than those n00b factories. At least the all-newbie corp is full of players that might still learn something, as opposed to having a bunch of older players in them who keep feeding complete disinformation and outright lies to their poor members…