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Damage sink.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
#1 - 2011-11-12 22:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
By upgrading the freighter hull (as you do with other T2 ships), this ship comes with four modules that can not be replaced or removed.
It can target four other ships and take on their damage. Those other ships will take 25% of damage after the damage has been through their own resistance. It can not use these modules on any ship that is using remote repairers on it.

So for a simply example, my Cyclone has 70% omni tank. A volley of 1000 damage hits me. That is cut to 300 damage by my resists. That 300 damage goes on the tank and I only take 75 points of damage.

Now there is 300 + 75 points of damage done to our fleet. However, four of those ships are really difficult to alpha kill, while the logistics, can focus on repairing the tanks.

Obvious limitations. Freighter is

  • easy to web
  • very slow
  • can not be made to fly faster without using warp to points
  • easy to scramble.
  • expensive
  • module distance limitations


Edit: This ship has no cargo space, the extra damage absorbing pieces and technology running the modules takes up all the space.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2011-11-13 02:30:59 UTC
why
Jenshae Chiroptera
#3 - 2011-11-13 07:13:21 UTC
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
why


Suddenly an exhumer, industrial, frigate or cruiser can't be alpha'ed.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2011-11-13 13:20:41 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
why


Suddenly an exhumer, industrial, frigate or cruiser can't be alpha'ed.


Why is this a good thing?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#5 - 2011-11-13 15:32:18 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:

Why is this a good thing?


For example:
You can increase the risk, commit more ships to the project and it then requires a very competent gang of pirates using more strategy than just a few pimped out destroyers.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#6 - 2011-11-13 15:53:00 UTC
****posters gonna ****post.

Terrible idea is terrible.

I'm sure plenty of carebears would much rather sacrifice a Freighter than a Hulk.

I guess your parents didn't stop you from eating lead paint chips as a child. And I'm assuming you also ate a big bowl of **** and stupid for breakfast. Because the idea is to MITIGATE losses, not increase them. Because then you'll just end up with more ISK lost due to Freighters becoming victims of gankers.

Give me all of your stuff and biomass your character.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Goose99
#7 - 2011-11-13 15:55:16 UTC
Supported. This will make tards and wannabes that shoot hulks while under concord protection go to lowsec where I can shoot them. Lol
Jenshae Chiroptera
#8 - 2011-11-13 17:12:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
It makes a ship that soaks up the damage and reduces ganking. If the bears sit in a belt too long like that they would just lose everything. It also exposes you to more gang and fleet combat.

So it is basically decreasing your gank chance while increasing your gang and small fleet fighting.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#9 - 2011-12-27 21:41:41 UTC
Whoa whoa, wait... You fly this T2 freighter into combat?!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Jenshae Chiroptera
#10 - 2011-12-27 21:49:46 UTC
I think people are going to start hating you for filling the first page with my threads soon. P

... and yes. It would act as a damage sink.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#11 - 2011-12-27 21:55:50 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I think people are going to start hating you for filling the first page with my threads soon. P


Your fault. I found a central list of a bunch of interesting ideas from someone who is not a complete mouthbreathing idiot, and clicked on them.

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
... and yes. It would act as a damage sink.


I think I want this to happen just so I can kill a badly piloted T2 freighter.

These would have to have really long cycle times, to allow those with quick reactions to swap targets and have some way of avoiding this. I am also concerned as to the way this could effect hit-and-run PvP (e.g. what a Vagabond does when it pops in on an enemy gang to kill their interdictor, then run away laughing).

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#12 - 2011-12-28 00:44:25 UTC  |  Edited by: tankus2
now, a remote damage sink would be a fun idea, though better placed as a t2, tier 3 battleship (of which all four t1 battleships that these would be based on already have some form of a defensive bonus). I'd imagine that, as how Petrus has stated, that you would need a module that has a long cycle time (30 seconds is plenty long), and perhaps having the modules reduce capacitor recharge time while active so as to make sure that the ship can only remote sink for a few minutes at best.

Also make sure such modules are high-slot utilization and one for each level of health (so there would be a shield damage sink, armor damage sink and a hull damage sink), and you may be on to something. Especially if the ship that can use them has crap for slot layout.

As it is, a freighter having modules doesn't make sense.

Edit: also change the subject to something that is less general and more on-topic. Hurting yourself with such a general name.

Where the science gets done
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#13 - 2011-12-28 02:49:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tenris Anis
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
By upgrading the freighter hull (as you do with other T2 ships), this ship comes with four modules that can not be replaced or removed.
It can target four other ships and take on their damage. Those other ships will take 25% of damage after the damage has been through their own resistance. It can not use these modules on any ship that is using remote repairers on it.

So for a simply example, my Cyclone has 70% omni tank. A volley of 1000 damage hits me. That is cut to 300 damage by my resists. That 300 damage goes on the tank and I only take 75 points of damage.

Now there is 300 + 75 points of damage done to our fleet. However, four of those ships are really difficult to alpha kill, while the logistics, can focus on repairing the tanks.

Obvious limitations. Freighter is

  • easy to web
  • very slow
  • can not be made to fly faster without using warp to points
  • easy to scramble.
  • expensive
  • module distance limitations


Edit: This ship has no cargo space, the extra damage absorbing pieces and technology running the modules takes up all the space.


Would it not be far more easy to give indi ships a shield link module which connects their shield with each other to increase their ehp and encourage large groups of them working together and make fleet protection for them viable?

Remove insurance.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-12-28 15:48:43 UTC
Tenris Anis wrote:
Would it not be far more easy to give indi ships a shield link module which connects their shield with each other to increase their ehp and encourage large groups of them working together and make fleet protection for them viable?


It would certainly seem a lot less like magic that way.

No thank you. This is one of those ideas that you can't even justify via LOL-RP.

I mean how do you reconcile the following sequence of events:

1. I shoot Bob in the face and the bullet lodges somewhere behind his left eye.
2. Tom dies from my bullet.

It just doesn't make sense, especially for armor and hull damage.

You could, in theory, have a shield extension module that would cause your shields to overlap those of other ships in your fleet with the same module active that are within a certain distance of you, causing all ships to take an equal amount of damage based on the average resists of the group. So you would effectively be raising the EHP of the group without needing to resort to "Wizards did it!" to explain why it works.

It's still a bad idea, but at least this way it's not ridiculous.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#15 - 2011-12-28 15:55:50 UTC
tankus2 - title changed and your post is on the first page, so if a developer reads this thread, I am sure they will see your input. For now, leaving it as is as sometimes the evolution of the idea and why it gets to a certain point can be important.
As for, "hurting yourself," I don't know why people bother to make idea thread. They get flamed, trolled, turned into personal attacks and often treated with hostility because the changes often threaten somewhere in someone's mind. So, these certainly are not for myself.

Tenris Anis wrote:
...
Would it not be far more easy to give indi ships a shield link module which connects their shield with each other to increase their ehp and encourage large groups of them working together and make fleet protection for them viable?


Interesting idea but two things; won't that make a bigger juicier target with much more loot that still can't defend itself and why do you think this is for industrials only?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#16 - 2011-12-29 04:02:56 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
... without needing to resort to "Wizards did it!" to explain why it works.

... but at least this way it's not ridiculous.


I nearly missed your post. Smile

Anyway, the distances are huge in space, while we and our ships are minute. Additionally, energy rapidly dissipates. Lasers for example are all down to the wizard. Hitting things with projectiles, again down to the wizard (it takes years of planning, programming computing and such, just to make an impact on a comet that is flying in a predictable orbit, not actually trying to avoid being hit.) The wizard stops our ships, we don't have reverse thrusters, there next to nothing to create friction and stop our ships the way they do. The wizard brings us all sorts of sounds. The only things you would hear are your guns firing through the vibrations in your ship and the air inside it and the impacts on your ship, none of the sounds of hitting them or them firing.
By the way, smart missiles that can direct themselves, like miniature space craft are the only real way to deliver a destructive pay load.

Oh, don't forget that the energy of your shields would dissipate and how on earth do you explain those vamps?

The wizard runs down the corridors, hair a mess, he is full of drugs and screaming out words to only songs he can hear. Big smile

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
GavinCapacitor
CaeIum Incognitum
#17 - 2011-12-29 15:53:53 UTC
I had a nice post detailing how awful everything you posted was, but the forums ate it. So here is the condensed version.

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

Hitting things with projectiles, again down to the wizard (it takes years of planning, programming computing and such, just to make an impact on a comet that is flying in a predictable orbit, not actually trying to avoid being hit.)


That comet we hit (in the present) was moving at 28,611 or so m/s. That is much faster than any ship in eve, not to mention eve is set in the far future. NASA also didn't have several hundred TeraFlops of power at their disposal in 2005 (like every ship in eve does).

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

By the way, smart missiles that can direct themselves, like miniature space craft are the only real way to deliver a destructive pay load.


You say this as if you are either a.) are an authority on this or b.) have an authoritative source. Spoilers: there is no one on earth that is, because we have yet to have any sort of space based conflict. Feel free to post that alien document on space weapons, it could make eve better!

More on topic: This supposed ship of yours has no way to repair damage, yet it is supposed to take damage for other ships. On top of nigh removing suicide ganking from asteroid belts, actually flying a freighter into a large scale battle? Can you say 'free kills' ?

tl;dr; Idea is awful, you are bad, stop making the forums worse thanks.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-12-29 19:12:31 UTC
I think you missed the point behind my "Wizards did it" comment.

The items you mention - lazers disappating over distance, tracking targets accurately, are all problems with either physics or engineering. None of them requires us to suspend belief to the point your proposal does.

Just think about what you're asking:

If I shoot a ship and it takes armor damage, that damage is transferred to another ship.

How does that work exactly? Does my bullet just decide to change course mid flight and fire on the wrong ship? And your proposal is even more unfathomable because the damage is somehow split between the two ships. I mean, forget for a minute that it would be wierd for a bullet to hit two targets, how exactly do you get a missile to explode at two places at the same time?

What you're asking for isn't just a simplification of physics or "advanced tech" to facilitate game play. You're asking for something straight out of magic the gathering.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-12-29 19:23:57 UTC
interesting concept, i'd evolve it a bit.

A ship designed around the use of a module that is almost entirely devoted to shield tanking its companions.. only instead of a remote shield repair module, it provided a 500%+ bonus to shield capacity to 'linked' allies. A penalty to shield regen rates would stop ships from becoming virtually invincible (this isn't to enable massive passive tanking)

The idea is a means to counteract alpha-kill in fleet warfare, if i'm not mistaken.

A different effect was introduced in another game, where it actually capped single-hit damage to a maximum of 10% of the defenders' HP. A similar effect based on EHP would prevent someone from instapopping with less than ~10 people firing.

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
Epofhis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2011-12-29 20:02:51 UTC
Yeah, so you've got a T2 freighter and a bunch of piddly little ****. Why bother shooting anything but the freighter?

And if you think freighters (even T2 ones) don't drop like a sack of **** then boy, have I got news for you.

Another thread in which macguffin ships focus their entire existance on mitigating a niche tactic.

-1. Not supported.

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