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Crime & Punishment

 
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Hight sec pod gank
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seany1212
M Y S T
#101 - 2013-08-30 10:27:24 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
seany1212 wrote:
Except it's not, what you appear to have said is that it's CCP's fault that podding happens in high sec, CCP created the vessels and the mechanics around it, it's up to you, me or average joe to pull the virtual trigger.

Or are you not saying that CCP is directly responsible for podding in high sec..?

What fault are you talking about?


The apparent fault that CCP have podded people in high sec.

Or, as i asked before, are you not saying that CCP is directly responsible for podding in high sec..?
Whitehound
#102 - 2013-08-30 10:43:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
seany1212 wrote:
The apparent fault that CCP have podded people in high sec.

Did they?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
seany1212
M Y S T
#103 - 2013-08-30 10:49:50 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
seany1212 wrote:
The apparent fault that CCP have podded people in high sec.

Did they?



Whitehound wrote:

The game and the forum is all created by CCP. A game is not more than a collection of problems needing to be solved by its players. Some are intentional, some are unintentional, still, it is all created by CCP.

There is also no player created content. The moment you click "Accept" on the EULA do you give up all your rights. It is all CCP's. You only think it is "your" spaceship, that it is "you" who created it, but it is in fact CCP.


Got to be the worlds greatest ruse.

****, i don't need to worry about getting loads of PVP kills, CCP are going to do it for me!
Whitehound
#104 - 2013-08-30 11:15:23 UTC
seany1212 wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
seany1212 wrote:
The apparent fault that CCP have podded people in high sec.

Did they?



Whitehound wrote:

The game and the forum is all created by CCP. A game is not more than a collection of problems needing to be solved by its players. Some are intentional, some are unintentional, still, it is all created by CCP.

There is also no player created content. The moment you click "Accept" on the EULA do you give up all your rights. It is all CCP's. You only think it is "your" spaceship, that it is "you" who created it, but it is in fact CCP.


Got to be the worlds greatest ruse.

****, i don't need to worry about getting loads of PVP kills, CCP are going to do it for me!

What is it you do not understand?

Do you think you have created the pods? Or do you call it "player created content" when you clear space of ships and make it as empty as it was they day EVE Online opened to players?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2013-08-30 11:26:09 UTC
Would you stop with the fish already ? All you do is drop red herrings and avoid answering.
Whitehound
#106 - 2013-08-30 11:47:04 UTC
Ressiv wrote:
... and avoid answering.

Why would I? You did not answer my question either. Go back to page one and reread my comment. Try as many times as you need. You have replied many times to me now and at some point should you be able to answer it.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#107 - 2013-08-30 15:44:16 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Enlighten me, what point do you think I am arguing against?


The existence of human agency, it seems.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Whitehound
#108 - 2013-08-30 17:03:30 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Enlighten me, what point do you think I am arguing against?


The existence of human agency, it seems.

Are you denying CCP's agents the right of creation? Are you saying machines cannot create?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2013-08-30 18:43:29 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Ressiv wrote:
... and avoid answering.

Why would I? You did not answer my question either. Go back to page one and reread my comment. Try as many times as you need. You have replied many times to me now and at some point should you be able to answer it.


Your question is based on an presupposition I do not support, and actualy tried to get some clarification on ... since you are unable to do so without presenting red herrings, you make it impossible to answer your question without you re-presenting your case better.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#110 - 2013-08-30 18:48:04 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Whitehound wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Enlighten me, what point do you think I am arguing against?


The existence of human agency, it seems.

Are you denying CCP's agents the right of creation? Are you saying machines cannot create?


I am saying that we do not describe tools as having created things when operated by people, which is why it's not the Mona Lisa by Paintbrush, it's the Mona Lisa by Da Vinci. It's why it's not Burn Jita by the EVE Servers (or Charles Babbage's brain), it's Burn Jita by Goonswarm.

The creator of something does not necessarily own that thing, nor has the owner of something necessarily created that thing.

Also, applying your arguments, CCP didn't create EVE, Charles Babbage (or rather his brain), as the creator of the concept of the computer, created EVE, as all the tools that created EVE were derived from his work.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Whitehound
#111 - 2013-08-30 19:26:01 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
I am saying that we do not describe tools as having created things when operated by people ...

Yes, we do. We do say software creates information and we do credit the software and the creator of the software for it.

You believe that by pressing a key do you create more than just a key press. You go as far as to believe anything following this key press is your creation, because you do not know where your supposed creation ends. You want it to be all yours, because you do not have a clue about what you actually do and so you try as hard as you can to claim it all for yourself and only to appear believable.

The engineer or administrator at CCP, who boots the servers and brings the game online also presses keys. If I used the same false logic of yours would he be the creator of it, too. And I rather believe this than what you are trying to sell here.

Try again telling me what it is that you have created. Make me believe it.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#112 - 2013-08-30 19:32:45 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Whitehound wrote:
The engineer or administrator at CCP, who boots the servers and brings the game online also presses keys. If I used the same false logic of yours would he be the creator of it, too. And I rather believe this than what you are trying to sell here.


I've never said I created a ship or module or whatever. That's not what I mean when I say "player created content" and I've been perfectly clear about that.

The Devs at CCP who wrote the code for the servers also pressed keys. By your logic, they are not the creators of EVE because they used tools created by other people (well, not created, because those people used tools as well), and so on and so forth.

What is your argument for claiming that CCP created Burn Jita that can't be used to deny that CCP created EVE?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Whitehound
#113 - 2013-08-30 20:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
RubyPorto wrote:
What is your argument for claiming that CCP created Burn Jita that can't be used to deny that CCP created EVE?

You are, because you want an argument, which denies that CCP created EVE and because you do not have an argument.

Try again.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#114 - 2013-08-30 20:23:51 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Whitehound wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
What is your argument for claiming that CCP created Burn Jita that can't be used to deny that CCP created EVE?

You are, because you want an argument, which denies that CCP created EVE and because you do not have an argument.


I don't deny and have never denied that CCP created EVE. I'm simply saying that other people create things using the tools CCP provides.

You're the one denying that anyone else can be said to have created things with the tools CCP provides, using a chain of reasoning that can be used without modification to deny that CCP created EVE.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Whitehound
#115 - 2013-08-30 20:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
RubyPorto wrote:
I don't deny and have ...

I do not care what you deny or do not deny or what you accuse me of. I said to make me believe.

Try again or give up.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2013-08-30 21:00:27 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
You want it to be all yours,


I'll stop you there ... this implies ownership, which is clearly not what he is talking about .. creating and owning are two very distinct things that are kinda hard to confuse to the level you have been demonstrating the last page or so... gratz I guess.
Whitehound
#117 - 2013-08-30 21:06:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Ressiv wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
You want it to be all yours,


I'll stop you there ... this implies ownership, which is clearly not what he is talking about .. creating and owning are two very distinct things that are kinda hard to confuse to the level you have been demonstrating the last page or so... gratz I guess.

You want to own the creation process, do you not? Do you not want to say it is "your" creation?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#118 - 2013-08-30 21:06:41 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
I don't deny and have ...

I do not care what you deny or do not deny or what you accuse me of. I said to make me believe.

Try again or give up.


You're asking me to convince you of something that I've never claimed. I simply said that there exists player created content in EVE. Since CCP itself recognizes the existence of such, I'm on pretty solid ground there.

You, on the other hand, have claimed variably that tools rather than humans have the agency to create, or that ownership implies creation. Those are both extraordinary claims that require at least some support.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#119 - 2013-08-30 21:08:31 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Whitehound wrote:
Ressiv wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
You want it to be all yours,


I'll stop you there ... this implies ownership, which is clearly not what he is talking about .. creating and owning are two very distinct things that are kinda hard to confuse to the level you have been demonstrating the last page or so... gratz I guess.

You want to own the creation process, do you not? Do you not want to say it is your creation?


A worker can create a table in a factory. He does not at any point own the materials, tools, or finished product, but it's still the worker who created it. That fact does not, in any way, interfere with the factory's ownership of the table.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2013-08-30 21:13:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ressiv
Whitehound wrote:

You want to own the creation process, do you not? Do you not want to say it is "your" creation?

Shakespeare created nothing .. the persons inventing language and the alphabet did by delivering the tools with which one can create poetry ... amiright ?