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Cruiser choice for 4/10? (WH and drone questions too)
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Thanos The Mad-Titan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-08-29 11:17:35 UTC
I’ve been looking into making an alt to do some combat exploration sites (‘DED rated’ I think they are called, yes I’m a mining carebear). I read that 4/10 were good money and fun so I was thinking of focusing on a cruiser, they can do 3/10 as well as far as I know.

I’m looking for info on a good cruiser to use, I was thinking of hisec Sansha space to begin with. As I eventually want to get this toon in a carrier in 6-12 months I was thinking of a droneboat. Currently I’m looking at Gila and Navy Vexor, assuming that a T 1Vexor is a bit too weak for this work.

I don’t mind the missile skills for Gila as I’m hoping to be in a Tengu in a WH in some months while skilling up for the carrier. But is the Gila a good choice? I’ve seen zip on battleclinic for it.

Any advice?

(Bonus question: Is drone-Proteus as bad as I hear? Would he be viable for WH work? Would any droneboat? Is Legion maybe the way to go for WH and the Phantasm a good 4/10 choice?)
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-08-29 11:21:50 UTC
the phantasm is terrible.

navy vexor is a beast, train for that.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Thanos The Mad-Titan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-08-29 11:52:55 UTC
Ok, how would you suggest using it? Do I drop a full flight of sentries, orbit them and add some DPS with turrets?

Since I'm not limited on turrets, any suggestions for turrets? Would it be good with artillery for the range and no cap needed so I can run an active tank? Would autocannons be better to take out frigs maybe?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#4 - 2013-08-29 12:44:51 UTC
Gila is a fine choice, navy vexor is also fine. For some encounters it may be necessary to AB away from NPCs and then drop drones, but the for ded 4s, you usually drop them, orbit and start shooting - start combat with guns if the npc's aren't aggro'd

Regular T1 vexor can do serp, gurista and blood ded4s just fine. I use rails, spike and gardes, with an Omni, so it hits well at 40km.

As far as frigates go, I prioritise them at range with gunnery, if there is any risk that they'll get under the guns, then I shoot them with drones and guns. For most usage, its better to be able to have a sweet spot where both weapon systems work well, and that sweet spot usually best at the garde optimal, rather than having guns not contribute much at your ideal range, and the drones struggling with tracking at the guns best range, hence me using long range turrets.
Thanos The Mad-Titan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-08-29 12:52:25 UTC
Could a T1 Vexor do Sansha 4/10 alright?

Is there a lot of difference between the pirate factions' difficulty or is it only the dmg types?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-08-29 13:01:02 UTC
iirc the serpentis 4/10 is a lot harder than the gurista one, so yea there is probably a lot of difference.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#7 - 2013-08-29 13:12:54 UTC
I can vouch for the Gila; it is beastly in every situation I take it into. I tank it with T2 hardeners for whatever faction I will be facing and missiles of the appropriate damage type. Although it is not meant for sentries, I carry a couple in mine anyway. I drop one at a good distance, orbit, send in lights, fire missiles. Scoop the sentry and move as needed. I will also scoop the sentry and replace it with a light if there are nothing but frigates around and it starts missing everything, of course.

Love my Gila. Certainly, it is one of the most versatile and useful ships I have.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#8 - 2013-08-29 20:01:23 UTC
I'm a fan of the passive shield fit Stabber FI for blitzing 4's.

It has the obvious drawbacks in sansha space though.
Czeris
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-08-30 00:05:29 UTC
The Gila is an amazingly versatile Cruiser for low-end exploration, since it has the slot layout, variable damage types via drones and missiles and more than enough tank. You should be able to do anywhere from 600-800 dps easily while fitting more than enough tank for any of those sites, a cloak and a probe launcher. It's also a cruiser, so it's nice and fast.
BlackMoon Thrawn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-08-30 01:39:16 UTC
Artillery Munnin works well for Sanshas. 2 slot tank and the rest gank. Has room for a tractor beam and probe launcher to boot.
Thanos The Mad-Titan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-08-30 09:36:05 UTC
What about drone tactics for Gila?

Trudeaux mentioned that sentries were not the way to go but rather lights, what do people say?

Are sentry drones just for long range vs larger than frigs? Are lights the way to go vs frigs? When do medium ones work best?
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-08-30 10:36:27 UTC
Thanos The Mad-Titan wrote:
Could a T1 Vexor do Sansha 4/10 alright?


The sansha 4/10 can do done with a T1 vexor, but it's not the best ship for the job. You have a lot of small ships, with e-war, in the last room, and the overseer reps a lot of damage.

I found the easiest was to just clear the room and kill the overseer when flying the vexor, you need at least medium drones to kill the overseer, and you can't use them if you don't kill the small ships. Once you are alone with the overseer you can easily kill him with guns + hammerheads.

I tried ignoring the small ships and just going for the overseer, but it takes some time to kill him and if the rats switch to your drones and you need to pull them he reps back to full armor. You might get lucky and kill him before the rats start switching, which i tried a couple of times, but you will probably need to overload repper, resist and afterburner to tank the damage long enough to kill and loot him.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Thanos The Mad-Titan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-08-30 13:01:15 UTC
when you say ewar do you only mean the tracking disruption that Sansha does or will I get webbed and ECM?
Sezurus Sechugiar
Volbrioeoe Aeri
#14 - 2013-08-30 19:44:13 UTC
Sanhas certainly dont use ECM, they tracking disrupt alot however, which is no problem in terms of tracking usually but in terms of range so if you go for something with turrets might aswell go short range because the guns wont shoot far anyways. Ofcourse this makes missile and drone ships better for the job. So i would go for the Gila with decent skills and 3 dda's the hobs propably can kill the overseer on their own, if you shoot then missiles at him too he dies quicker. I wouldnt kill anything but the overseer in the last room its just to much time wasted, you should be able to tank the room if you fit properly for em/therm. Using sentries will kill the overseer significantly quicker then hobs but the question then would be who dies first, the sentries from the sansha frigs or the overseer from the sentries.

And there shouldnt be any webs whatsoever, atleast i cant remember any but i didnt do the site since T3's were banned from 4/10's so that might have changed.
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#15 - 2013-08-31 01:12:20 UTC
Thanos The Mad-Titan wrote:
What about drone tactics for Gila?

Trudeaux mentioned that sentries were not the way to go but rather lights, what do people say?

Are sentry drones just for long range vs larger than frigs? Are lights the way to go vs frigs? When do medium ones work best?


Sentries are large immobile drones that do best against, well, large targets that are farther away, yes. Normally they are used in battleships and ships like the Ishtar, which is a HAC and therefore designed for tougher content than the Gila.

Light scouts are meant for frigates and mediums for cruisers and battlecruisers, but honestly, I find that mediums are very squishy. Meaning, they pull aggro easily and take heavy damage quickly. I don't know why this is, but whatever. So I personally only use them situationally and pull them back in at the first sign of trouble. Light scouts are my defaults in the Gila. Others will certainly have strong opinions on the matter - I'm just saying what has worked great for me.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
Thanos The Mad-Titan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-08-31 09:11:48 UTC
Thanks a lot for that, I think I'll give the Gila a go, since it seems to be overtanked I might throw in a Relic Analyzer as well ...you know, after I try some 4/10s
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#17 - 2013-08-31 10:12:10 UTC
Thanos The Mad-Titan wrote:
What about drone tactics for Gila?

Trudeaux mentioned that sentries were not the way to go but rather lights, what do people say?

Are sentry drones just for long range vs larger than frigs? Are lights the way to go vs frigs? When do medium ones work best?


Sentry drones are better than all other drone types, unless you let frigates get under their tracking (or they start there), in which case a proper droneboat has enough spare dronebay space that you can have a flight of lights to switch to.

You don't generally plan to do content with lights, as they don't have anything like the damage of a sentry.

Gila in particular has the largest drone bay given to subcaps, so that you can bring

1 - flight of racial sentry drones (one of bouncers, wardens or curators to suit the particular region you are fighting in).
2 - flight of gardes (to fight in the 20-40km range where your racials may not track properly)
3 - flight of racial heavies to suit the region - which you would probably only use if cruisers got under your tracking
4 - flight of racial lights to suit the region - which you would probably only use if frigates got under your tracking.

With the gila shield tank, you need to balance it against fitting a couple of omnidirectional tracking links in order to get the most out of your sentries. If you don't want to drag around too many drones in cargo between regions, then just use gallente heavies and lights. They always damage tolerably although they are fairly sluggish.

I never bring medium drones, pretty much pointless given drone agro, and the 125mbit bandwidth of the gila (if you've got the bandwidth, you want to make use of it).