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The cloak warp trick: yes, no, maybe?

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Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#1 - 2013-05-14 14:41:24 UTC
I'd love to hear the CSM's stance on this unintended feature. Is it fine, is it not fine, why?
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#2 - 2013-05-15 07:27:04 UTC
Can I safely assume that you're speaking of the MWD+Cloak trick?

If so, I have seen at least twice remarks from various CCPers stating "working as intended." No, I'm afraid I cannot provide citations or quotes. Perhaps someone else can back me up here?

ST

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!
Friggz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-05-15 15:30:30 UTC
I'm not arguing if it should be in the game, but considering that after it went public CCP changed how cloaks and prop modules work to make it easier to do it, I'd imagine it's working as intended.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#4 - 2013-05-15 18:21:23 UTC

The cloak has nothing to do with it:

Coupling the cloak with the MWD trick doesn't change the fact its simply the mwd-to-warp trick.

If there is a problem, it real problem is the max velocity mechanic.

To enter warp, you must be aligned to your destination and traveling at 75% max velocity.

MWD's, (ab's, although not utilized much), and Webs all instantaneously change your ship's max velocity when these modules are turned on/off.
This allows you to pulse an MWD to enter warp within 10 seconds (even if you are in a triple plated BS or Orca).
This allows a buddy to web you into warp (insta warping freighters, carriers, and dreads!).

The ONLY acceptable solution, in my mind, is to have the "max velocity" change gradually rather than instantly, so you ship doesn't instantly go from 45% of max velocity to 250% of max velocity the moment your MWD shuts off, or the moment you get webbed.

That solves all three "issues".... web to warp, MWD to warp, and the cloak-mwd trick (which is really just MWD to warp+cloak)
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#5 - 2013-05-16 21:17:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Moved to Jita Park Speakers Corner as that is the most likely place to get an initial reply by CSM members.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Anna Djan
Banana Corp
#6 - 2013-06-25 16:58:26 UTC
Working as intended. Stops **** tackles.
Ali Aras
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#7 - 2013-06-25 17:29:02 UTC
Yeah, working fine. It's a higher-level thing that requires some skill, decloakers can still muck you up, and it's noticeably harder than just flying a covops cloaked ship (the covops cloaked ship will also likely align less like a tractor-trailer, which helps).

http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog
Ripard Teg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-06-26 06:54:01 UTC
I agree with Ali. It's working as intended. It's not a get out of jail free card at all. A good decloaker -- such as myself Blink -- in the right ship can still catch you.

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2013-06-26 08:33:02 UTC
Cloak-Warp is an ingenious application of game mechanics, much like RSB'd Phoboses with 2000+ scan res.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-07-09 16:56:21 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Malcanis wrote:
Cloak-Warp is an ingenious application of game mechanics, much like RSB'd Phoboses with 2000+ scan res.

Might not be the best way to make your point, since the RSB got nerfed. Unless that's actually the point you were trying to make.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Gingar Bread
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-07-18 10:40:40 UTC
In Low Security space, having to watch capital ships (!!!) getting through gates unharmed is plain broken.
Not only is the player using the MWD mechanic to get into warp faster, but he couples it with a cloak, and thus won't be caught really.

If it's all about "clever use of mechanics", then why in heaven's name aren't people who set-up a camp allowed to drop drones, cans or whatnot. And don't start with "LAG", that's just absurd!

While 0.0 relies on bubbles to catch people when a camp is set-up, low-sec players must resort to much more ingenuous and clever tactics and set-ups in order to catch almost all of their prey. They get a negative security status, HAVE TO spend on additional toons in order to resupply due to not being able to go hisec, and they rely on catching their prey in order to make a living (pillage ships or ransom).

For the most part there is no more Risk vs. Reward. Full rack of stabs, cloak + MWD, you do the math.

There are a lot of double standards here, on which game mechanics are allowed to be used outside of the primary intended use, and play with them like in a sand-box, and which aren't because, oh-noes, you could kill players, god forbid.

My 2c...
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#12 - 2013-07-18 14:15:02 UTC
Grarr Dexx wrote:
I'd love to hear the CSM's stance on this unintended feature. Is it fine, is it not fine, why?


It's just as legit as Remote Sensor boosted HICs.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#13 - 2013-07-18 14:16:28 UTC
Why'd resebo's get nerfed then while cloak warp is still okay to go?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#14 - 2013-07-18 14:21:44 UTC
They didn't get nerfed enough to bring the Phobos below "instalock" level.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Gingar Bread
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-07-18 15:55:23 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
They didn't get nerfed enough to bring the Phobos below "instalock" level.


Would you mind defining your interpretation of "instalock" ?
Because I sure as hell hope "instalock" would be more than 1000 Scan resolution.
Vidarel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-07-18 16:02:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Vidarel
I gotta get me one of these instalocking Phobos's.
Antony E Stark
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-07-29 14:40:26 UTC
Gingar Bread wrote:
In Low Security space, having to watch capital ships (!!!) getting through gates unharmed is plain broken.
Not only is the player using the MWD mechanic to get into warp faster, but he couples it with a cloak, and thus won't be caught really.

If it's all about "clever use of mechanics", then why in heaven's name aren't people who set-up a camp allowed to drop drones, cans or whatnot. And don't start with "LAG", that's just absurd!

While 0.0 relies on bubbles to catch people when a camp is set-up, low-sec players must resort to much more ingenuous and clever tactics and set-ups in order to catch almost all of their prey. They get a negative security status, HAVE TO spend on additional toons in order to resupply due to not being able to go hisec, and they rely on catching their prey in order to make a living (pillage ships or ransom).

For the most part there is no more Risk vs. Reward. Full rack of stabs, cloak + MWD, you do the math.

There are a lot of double standards here, on which game mechanics are allowed to be used outside of the primary intended use, and play with them like in a sand-box, and which aren't because, oh-noes, you could kill players, god forbid.

My 2c...


You could go to 0.0 and deploy bubbles and hunt prey there maybe, being a sandbox and all?
Hicksimus
Torgue
#18 - 2013-08-29 17:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Hicksimus
I know people feel compelled to overcomplicate the topic but it boils down to this.

A person with little skill training and very little isk can experience significantly lessened risk by exploiting game mechanics while a person must put in significantly more effort, skill training and isk to stand a chance of stopping them. Especially in lowsec.

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
Rune Scorpio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-08-29 17:06:28 UTC
Ali Aras wrote:
Yeah, working fine. It's a higher-level thing that requires some skill, decloakers can still muck you up, and it's noticeably harder than just flying a covops cloaked ship (the covops cloaked ship will also likely align less like a tractor-trailer, which helps).


You guys obviously don't play in lowsec.
Nice to see CSM members with no clue that there are other areas than null in the game...
Try catching a mwd + cloak battleship on a gate with a cruiser that can tank gateguns for more than 5 seconds. It is not a "higher-level thing", It requires knowledge of the mechanic and thats it.
Align cloak THEN hit mwd since its got a nice delay in module activation allowance and then wait at warp to 0 with a finger on the cloak button... so much skill involved to have the security of a blockade runner. The acceleration curve on a cruiser from 0-2000 takes more than10 seconds to cross the 11-17k that they appear off the gate. So they decloak and are in warp. Nice. I am fairly good at decloaking things and have done it many times and it is pretty much luck in lowsec with that trick.
I constantly see guys in mammoths and itty 5's doing it because viators are small. Chased many MANY ishtars and PVE drone boats doing it because they only want to do lowsec sites and never take a risk at pvp.
kbroen Xylus
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-08-29 17:08:02 UTC
I'm with Hicksimus on this. This is not balanced.
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