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Considering buying a nightmare
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YenomDeenI
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-08-29 02:21:03 UTC
My question. What are the minimum skills you would require of yourself before stepping in to a nightmare for PVE?

My story. I've been playing eve for a couple months now have about 3m SP and have accumulated enough to faction fit a nightmare, lose it, and be able to jump back in to a apocalypse. I obviously don't want to lose it, which is why I'm asking the question, but if I were to lose it I could survive. I'm not necessarily wanting to jump in to the ship this week, I just want a minimum bar to achieve, before I drop the isk on that sexy nightmare.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#2 - 2013-08-29 02:27:00 UTC
YenomDeenI wrote:
My question. What are the minimum skills you would require of yourself before stepping in to a nightmare for PVE?

My story. I've been playing eve for a couple months now have about 3m SP and have accumulated enough to faction fit a nightmare, lose it, and be able to jump back in to a apocalypse. I obviously don't want to lose it, which is why I'm asking the question, but if I were to lose it I could survive. I'm not necessarily wanting to jump in to the ship this week, I just want a minimum bar to achieve, before I drop the isk on that sexy nightmare.


T2 large lasers, both beam and pulse, perfect gunnery support skills, T2 tank, L5 in both BS skills.
That should be the MINIMUM to fly that ship.

It won't happen, but I wish CCP made the pre-req's for every T2, Navy, and Pirate ship L5 in all base skills, plus ship command skills.

I get so tired of seeing people show up in blinged out ships, only to find their awful gunnery support skills and ship support skills restrict them to half of the maximum capabilities of the ship.
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#3 - 2013-08-29 02:31:14 UTC
YenomDeenI wrote:
My question. What are the minimum skills you would require of yourself before stepping in to a nightmare for PVE?

My story. I've been playing eve for a couple months now have about 3m SP and have accumulated enough to faction fit a nightmare, lose it, and be able to jump back in to a apocalypse. I obviously don't want to lose it, which is why I'm asking the question, but if I were to lose it I could survive. I'm not necessarily wanting to jump in to the ship this week, I just want a minimum bar to achieve, before I drop the isk on that sexy nightmare.


Both amarr and caldarie bs at 4 IS A MUST.
Large beam at 4 (faction tach), good cap and shield skill. T2 hardeners and (very important) T2 drone. With only 3m in SP, i would wait a month or 2 and skill every skill at 4 before going in a nightmare.
Baggo Hammers
#4 - 2013-08-29 03:03:42 UTC
I would think 9m SP in related skills to answer your question.

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#5 - 2013-08-29 03:05:04 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
YenomDeenI wrote:
My question. What are the minimum skills you would require of yourself before stepping in to a nightmare for PVE?

My story. I've been playing eve for a couple months now have about 3m SP and have accumulated enough to faction fit a nightmare, lose it, and be able to jump back in to a apocalypse. I obviously don't want to lose it, which is why I'm asking the question, but if I were to lose it I could survive. I'm not necessarily wanting to jump in to the ship this week, I just want a minimum bar to achieve, before I drop the isk on that sexy nightmare.


T2 large lasers, both beam and pulse, perfect gunnery support skills, T2 tank, L5 in both BS skills.
That should be the MINIMUM to fly that ship.

It won't happen, but I wish CCP made the pre-req's for every T2, Navy, and Pirate ship L5 in all base skills, plus ship command skills.

I get so tired of seeing people show up in blinged out ships, only to find their awful gunnery support skills and ship support skills restrict them to half of the maximum capabilities of the ship.

If you have to have perfect skills in everything that could possibly be related to that ship its hardly minimum requirements anymore is it?

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
YenomDeenI
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-08-29 03:07:26 UTC
bloodknight2 wrote:

Both amarr and caldarie bs at 4 IS A MUST.
Large beam at 4 (faction tach), good cap and shield skill. T2 hardeners and (very important) T2 drone. With only 3m in SP, i would wait a month or 2 and skill every skill at 4 before going in a nightmare.


This seems a little more reasonable to me then the first response. I do appreciate both of the responses though. I thought that t2 weapons weren't a must on nightmare since its powergrid/cpu couldn't handle t2 tachs, correct me if I'm wrong. BS's 4, T2 drones, all gunnery to 4 was what I wanted before buying. Just wanted to make sure I shouldn't be pumping everything out to 5 before I get into it. I wasn't planning on doing much more support then I already have considering how well the apocalypse handles lvl 4s currently. Should I be worried about the nightmare cap stability vs's the apoc's?
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#7 - 2013-08-29 03:17:38 UTC
ACE McFACE wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
YenomDeenI wrote:
My question. What are the minimum skills you would require of yourself before stepping in to a nightmare for PVE?

My story. I've been playing eve for a couple months now have about 3m SP and have accumulated enough to faction fit a nightmare, lose it, and be able to jump back in to a apocalypse. I obviously don't want to lose it, which is why I'm asking the question, but if I were to lose it I could survive. I'm not necessarily wanting to jump in to the ship this week, I just want a minimum bar to achieve, before I drop the isk on that sexy nightmare.


T2 large lasers, both beam and pulse, perfect gunnery support skills, T2 tank, L5 in both BS skills.
That should be the MINIMUM to fly that ship.

It won't happen, but I wish CCP made the pre-req's for every T2, Navy, and Pirate ship L5 in all base skills, plus ship command skills.

I get so tired of seeing people show up in blinged out ships, only to find their awful gunnery support skills and ship support skills restrict them to half of the maximum capabilities of the ship.

If you have to have perfect skills in everything that could possibly be related to that ship its hardly minimum requirements anymore is it?


On the contrary. When you are talking about a ship hull that is bouncing around the 1 billion mark, then fittings on top of that, yeah, virtually perfect skills SHOULD be demanded.
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#8 - 2013-08-29 03:21:28 UTC
YenomDeenI wrote:
bloodknight2 wrote:

Both amarr and caldarie bs at 4 IS A MUST.
Large beam at 4 (faction tach), good cap and shield skill. T2 hardeners and (very important) T2 drone. With only 3m in SP, i would wait a month or 2 and skill every skill at 4 before going in a nightmare.


This seems a little more reasonable to me then the first response. I do appreciate both of the responses though. I thought that t2 weapons weren't a must on nightmare since its powergrid/cpu couldn't handle t2 tachs, correct me if I'm wrong. BS's 4, T2 drones, all gunnery to 4 was what I wanted before buying. Just wanted to make sure I shouldn't be pumping everything out to 5 before I get into it. I wasn't planning on doing much more support then I already have considering how well the apocalypse handles lvl 4s currently. Should I be worried about the nightmare cap stability vs's the apoc's?


If you can do lv4 no problem with an apoc, then you will have even less problem doing them with a nightmare. Cap isn't an issue to me. You only need to use your shield booster when needed.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#9 - 2013-08-29 03:42:36 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
ACE McFACE wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
YenomDeenI wrote:
My question. What are the minimum skills you would require of yourself before stepping in to a nightmare for PVE?

My story. I've been playing eve for a couple months now have about 3m SP and have accumulated enough to faction fit a nightmare, lose it, and be able to jump back in to a apocalypse. I obviously don't want to lose it, which is why I'm asking the question, but if I were to lose it I could survive. I'm not necessarily wanting to jump in to the ship this week, I just want a minimum bar to achieve, before I drop the isk on that sexy nightmare.


T2 large lasers, both beam and pulse, perfect gunnery support skills, T2 tank, L5 in both BS skills.
That should be the MINIMUM to fly that ship.

It won't happen, but I wish CCP made the pre-req's for every T2, Navy, and Pirate ship L5 in all base skills, plus ship command skills.

I get so tired of seeing people show up in blinged out ships, only to find their awful gunnery support skills and ship support skills restrict them to half of the maximum capabilities of the ship.

If you have to have perfect skills in everything that could possibly be related to that ship its hardly minimum requirements anymore is it?


On the contrary. When you are talking about a ship hull that is bouncing around the 1 billion mark, then fittings on top of that, yeah, virtually perfect skills SHOULD be demanded.

The whole point of a minimum is to show the basic skills you should train, and the skills you should keep training, once you've achieved the minimum. Obviously it doesn't quite work like that in EVE because the minimum doesn't include stuff like large energy turret I but its still a good indication. But I get what your saying, and for the OP, you should get those skills Dinsdale mentioned to at least 4 before flying it. Getting it to 5 is what you should do after you buy it. If you don't like the ship, no point training stuff like the BS skills to 5 (Unless you plan on flying Caldari and Amarr battleships)

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
YenomDeenI
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-08-29 03:49:44 UTC
ACE McFACE wrote:
.

The whole point of a minimum is to show the basic skills you should train, and the skills you should keep training, once you've achieved the minimum. Obviously it doesn't quite work like that in EVE because the minimum doesn't include stuff like large energy turret I but its still a good indication. But I get what your saying, and for the OP, you should get those skills Dinsdale mentioned to at least 4 before flying it. Getting it to 5 is what you should do after you buy it. If you don't like the ship, no point training stuff like the BS skills to 5 (Unless you plan on flying Caldari and Amarr battleships)[/quote]

^ this. I realize Perfect skills would be better but that isn't what I'm going for. I would like to be in the ship within the year :).
Alright gents, thanks for the replys. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything major I was missing about knowing how to skill for the nightmare. I'll spend another month or so getting a few things to IV and V, then give it a shot.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#11 - 2013-08-29 03:53:35 UTC
Quote:
On the contrary. When you are talking about a ship hull that is bouncing around the 1 billion mark, then fittings on top of that, yeah, virtually perfect skills SHOULD be demanded.


I wish I could count the billions that I made in my Machariel between the 700 DPS it had when I started flying it and the 1300+ it spits out now. So glad I didn't take this terrible advice then either.

Whats equally important to the skills of the ship are the skills of the pilot. If you are already experienced flying the missions thats half the battle. You know how much DPS you need to tank, what not to shoot etc etc...

I would still not fly it with only 3M SP, but you should have an excellent frame of reference if you're already a battleship flying mission pilot. The most important thing to have is good light drone skills. Frigs are what scram you and can therefore cause your ship to go boom; killing them before you can warp out if you get in trouble is paramount.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
YenomDeenI
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-08-29 04:03:58 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
On the contrary. When you are talking about a ship hull that is bouncing around the 1 billion mark, then fittings on top of that, yeah, virtually perfect skills SHOULD be demanded.


I wish I could count the billions that I made in my Machariel between the 700 DPS it had when I started flying it and the 1300+ it spits out now. So glad I didn't take this terrible advice then either.

Whats equally important to the skills of the ship are the skills of the pilot. If you are already experienced flying the missions thats half the battle. You know how much DPS you need to tank, what not to shoot etc etc...

I would still not fly it with only 3M SP, but you should have an excellent frame of reference if you're already a battleship flying mission pilot. The most important thing to have is good light drone skills. Frigs are what scram you and can therefore cause your ship to go boom; killing them before you can warp out if you get in trouble is paramount.


This is the mindset I have. I know I won't be doing them as fast now as I will be in a year but I also don't think I have to wait a year to get into it either.
I wouldn't consider myself anything close to a professional at EVE, but I believe I have a fairly solid grasp. Kiting, spiraling, increasing and reducing trans veloc, when to use what items and why, which ships to take down first and last, yada yada. I have decent enough knowledge of the basic mechanics and am not too fearful of losing a ship to Pve. If in doubt just hit the reset button, I mean the jump drive.
Andrea Griffin
#13 - 2013-08-29 04:28:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Griffin
You can and should fit T2 tachs on a Nightmare - when you're able to. The PG requirements of large beams was reduced a while back, so you can now fit T2 tachs on a Nightmare without any issues. It works fine with faction stuff though.

You will want enough skills for a T2 shield tank; 4 slots (3 active hardeners, 1 XL ASB) and maybe a rig should be plenty of tank for the missions that need it. The rest should be dedicated to damage and damage application. You shouldn't need many capacitor modules at all. T2 light drones and decent drone support skills. That's about it as far as "must haves".

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-08-29 04:50:41 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
YenomDeenI wrote:
My question. What are the minimum skills you would require of yourself before stepping in to a nightmare for PVE?

My story. I've been playing eve for a couple months now have about 3m SP and have accumulated enough to faction fit a nightmare, lose it, and be able to jump back in to a apocalypse. I obviously don't want to lose it, which is why I'm asking the question, but if I were to lose it I could survive. I'm not necessarily wanting to jump in to the ship this week, I just want a minimum bar to achieve, before I drop the isk on that sexy nightmare.


T2 large lasers, both beam and pulse, perfect gunnery support skills, T2 tank, L5 in both BS skills.
That should be the MINIMUM to fly that ship.

It won't happen, but I wish CCP made the pre-req's for every T2, Navy, and Pirate ship L5 in all base skills, plus ship command skills.

I get so tired of seeing people show up in blinged out ships, only to find their awful gunnery support skills and ship support skills restrict them to half of the maximum capabilities of the ship.


I cannot believe that I am actually agreeing with Mr. Pirannha.

These are strange times we are living in...

to OP:
My personal rule of thumb was to use t1 ships (in your case the Apocalypse) until I have maxed them almost out (OK, weapon spec level 4 is enough) before I even considered upgrading into a shiny faction ship to increase the performance even further.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#15 - 2013-08-29 04:52:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Eek. Congrats on thinking about a nightmare. I think I doubled my battleship IQ just learning about how to fit those. I still don't know... but I know a lot more than I did before I started thinking about it. Big smile

The only tip I can offer is this: The Nightmare and Bhaalgorn are probably some of the toughest ships when you dual tank them. It may not make sense to do that depending on your application. I'd build a nightmare as a sniper if I had a fleet to fly with though...

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#16 - 2013-08-29 05:13:16 UTC
Andrea Griffin wrote:
You will want enough skills for a T2 shield tank; 4 slots (3 active hardeners, 1 XL ASB) and maybe a rig should be plenty of tank for the missions that need it. The rest should be dedicated to damage and damage application. You shouldn't need any capacitor modules at all.
Well maybe some capacitor rigs? I needed a few of those just to keep my tachyons and hardeners running for any length of time.

Who put the goat in there?
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#17 - 2013-08-29 05:19:32 UTC
Dude just put officer mods on it and then skills wont matter- you'll be invincible!!!
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#18 - 2013-08-29 05:29:15 UTC
Leigh Akiga wrote:
Dude just put officer mods on it and then skills wont matter- you'll be invincible!!!

LOL! Pirate advice ^ Pirate

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#19 - 2013-08-29 06:00:30 UTC
Quote:
I get so tired of seeing people show up in blinged out ships, only to find their awful gunnery support skills and ship support skills restrict them to half of the maximum capabilities of the ship.


In a world where some (battle) ships aren't twice as powerful as others this would be good advice.

However, New Eden is not that place.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Julius Priscus
#20 - 2013-08-29 06:09:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Julius Priscus
YenomDeenI wrote:
bloodknight2 wrote:

Both amarr and caldarie bs at 4 IS A MUST.
Large beam at 4 (faction tach), good cap and shield skill. T2 hardeners and (very important) T2 drone. With only 3m in SP, i would wait a month or 2 and skill every skill at 4 before going in a nightmare.


This seems a little more reasonable to me then the first response. I do appreciate both of the responses though. I thought that t2 weapons weren't a must on nightmare since its powergrid/cpu couldn't handle t2 tachs, correct me if I'm wrong. BS's 4, T2 drones, all gunnery to 4 was what I wanted before buying. Just wanted to make sure I shouldn't be pumping everything out to 5 before I get into it. I wasn't planning on doing much more support then I already have considering how well the apocalypse handles lvl 4s currently. Should I be worried about the nightmare cap stability vs's the apoc's?



imo. if you use tachs faction tachs are a must if you want to be cap stable.

how ever with the introduction of mjd's and asb's you don't really need to be all the cap stable anymore.
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