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Syria

First post
Author
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-08-26 20:00:54 UTC
I am genuinely scared about what my government is proposing.

The most frightening thing is that I know that NOTHING I do will change it.

I thought governments were meant to represent the people? Not force them down a route of death and retaliation.

I am ashamed to be English right now.

Aaaaaaand relax.

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#2 - 2013-08-26 20:07:25 UTC
I'm more terrified about what Assad has already done.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#3 - 2013-08-26 20:13:07 UTC
I'm more worried about not knowing which side used the damn Chemical weapons and the stakes ME oil pipeline investors and Russia have conflicting interests in whats possibly the opening stages of a Sharia/Sunni ethnic war.

We are probably going to war, and I can't think of a favourable outcome that doesn't involve boots on the ground given the guys fighting are rebels and Al-Quaida versus Assad. This is a Stalin vs Hitler war where the West wants to pick "the opposition" where the opposition are not a united front, beneficial to our interests or Humanity or Syria in general.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#4 - 2013-08-26 20:14:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Don't wanna link as per EULA, but US Media now flooding with Kerry's announcement that we have evidence of Assad hiding evidence of use and to be announced in a few days.

edit: dang, that's one staggering drunk of a sentence.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#5 - 2013-08-26 20:19:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirjava
My money is still on Thursday evening, and that this will be more Iraq part 3 with actual chemical weapons being used instead of strongly suspected.

All eyes on Israel, Lebanon and Turkey to see the next moves, as British assets are being moved forwards towards Cyprus.

Ladies and Gentlemen Britain is gearing up for war.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-08-26 20:21:58 UTC
I am less concerned by the evidence. It is fantastic media to say that someone has used chemical weapons.

Thousands of people have died, chemical or ballistic.

Is there a difference?

Open your head to the fact that this is openly bullshit.

Am more concerned that we open up a more massive hurt between Muslim and West,

Aaaaaaand relax.

Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-08-26 20:22:59 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
My money is still on Thursday evening, and that this will be more Iraq part 3 with actual chemical weapons being used instead of strongly suspected.

All eyes on Israel, Lebanon and Turkey to see the next moves, as British assets are being moved forwards towards Cyprus.

Ladies and Gentlemen Britain is gearing up for war.


I wish this wasn't so

Aaaaaaand relax.

Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-08-26 20:24:49 UTC
It comes back to my original point.

Cameron decides we should go to war - if you asked the public you would get a very different answer.

Aaaaaaand relax.

Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-08-26 20:26:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayem See
Jayem See wrote:
It comes back to my original point.

Cameron decides we should go to war - if you asked the public you would get a very different answer.


So how is the English government representing it's people.

Ed - am going to try and take my own advice and chill out.

Aaaaaaand relax.

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#10 - 2013-08-26 20:32:15 UTC
Chemical weapons are classified as Weapons of Mass Destruction, or the poor mans Nuke because it kills indiscriminately. It is not targeted at military assets or troops, it does not enable the capacity to select individual targets. The majority of deaths as I understand it are not from direct combat but from infrastructure and societal collapse, disease ect.

These weapons kill, but they are being shot in an urban environment, implying reckless risk to civilians or a simple disregard or even it being the intend to target civilians.

If Assad is desperate enough to use them, this could work as these weapons are a step above rockets and bombs, if as Russia and Assad claim that these are stolen weapons form Syrian stockpiles (plausible given the military defections and general anarchy) then this is an attempt like 9/11 to draw outside forces in to do what they cannot achieve : defeat Assad.

Noone on the ground in Syria is clean and smells like roses, and the Rebels have people like this as leaders, and do not remove or discipline them then what does that say about them?

There is more to interer Muslim relations at play here than I think you realise.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Jade III
Sebiestor Tribe
#11 - 2013-08-26 20:33:30 UTC
I'm just glad I have my Internet Spaceships, not worry about this sort of stuff. So I'll go on with my life Smile

My adventure blog: http://lonewolfadventures.wordpress.com/

Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-08-26 20:39:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayem See
Jade III wrote:
I'm just glad I have my Internet Spaceships, not worry about this sort of stuff. So I'll go on with my life Smile


Good. That's a nicely westernised approach to life. Carry on. Some of us will question the bullshit that we are fed on a daily basis.

I am entirely cynical about the evidence provided by my government and that of the Syrians. If it had be opened up earlier then we might have got some answers.

As it is I just want to leave this alone. It is nothing to do with us. Nobody gave us a moral right.

Aaaaaaand relax.

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#13 - 2013-08-26 20:47:06 UTC
We gave us a moral right and obligation, under the charter of the United Nations of which Britain underwrites by trade, diplomacy and when necessary force of arms.

Whether you agree with it or not, its there on the books as one of the 5 permanent members of the UN Security council, and we have a duty to consider the possibilities to restore law and order should it be necessary. Pretty certain we tried other ways of resolving it over the last 2 years of Civil war before WMD's started turning up being used in the urban centres.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-08-26 20:52:05 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
We gave us a moral right and obligation, under the charter of the United Nations of which Britain underwrites by trade, diplomacy and when necessary force of arms.

Whether you agree with it or not, its there on the books as one of the 5 permanent members of the UN Security council, and we have a duty to consider the possibilities to restore law and order should it be necessary. Pretty certain we tried other ways of resolving it over the last 2 years of Civil war before WMD's started turning up being used in the urban centres.


Interesting point considering both the US and the UK are trying to avoid using UN law.

Let us use "International" law instead.

Either way - and I make no apology for this - I don't want my country to make this decision on my behalf. This is nothing to do with us. We should stay out of it.

Aaaaaaand relax.

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#15 - 2013-08-26 20:57:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirjava
Keep in mind the Anglo perspective on the law, that it is the guide to determine legality through the courts after they are accused of being broken. We see the obligation to uphold, and damn the consequences to defend ourselves in the aftermath.

We are breaking the law if we do act, and if we do not act simultaneously. The reason it is illegal is because China and Russia do not agree to it, but a majority of 3 to 5 agree it is necessary.

Additionally, to reduce it to economics is is to Russias benefit for Syria to be a warzone in the center of the ME as it increases the cost of Hydrocarbons in Europe, expensive through Suez leads to price gouging to keep Gazprom profitably propping up the Rubel and Russian economies.

I do however see the merit to leaving them alone to kill each other off as its none of our direct concern, after all what's a few hundred thousand lives to the moral superiority of the West....

We aren't at war yet, and war is an extension of diplomacy at the end of the day. We prove we are commited to ending this and have the firepower and fortitude to carry it out and more than a few heads will turn inside Syria. This may end up being Cyprus being an unsinkable Battleship sitting off of Syria to open negotiations, a small hope but a good one none theless.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-08-26 21:08:35 UTC
Ouch - I do hear what you are saying. I just happen to believe that we have spent our goodwill.

How long do we have to fail at intervening before we should just back off. Every single time we get involved it hurts us - and more importantly the people we are trying to help.

Allow ourselves to be there if someone wants us but back the **** off..

If we start developing stuff that removes the oil dependency then we could have an interesting talk.

Aaaaaaand relax.

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-08-26 21:14:11 UTC
I am genuinely afraid that the US Simpleton in Chief opens his pie hole and get us involved in Syria. The effing simpleton just can not stay away from **** that is not our business.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-08-26 21:16:50 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
I am genuinely afraid that the US Simpleton in Chief opens his pie hole and get us involved in Syria. The effing simpleton just can not stay away from **** that is not our business.


I am afraid in our desire to keep your government happy that we could be led down the wrong path.

As I stated before, I am scared of what our government is getting us into.

Aaaaaaand relax.

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#19 - 2013-08-26 21:17:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirjava
A very interesting talk it will be, but tomorrow the powerplants will burn coal and gas, the cars, ambulances and the military will use Petrol.

So far we've backed off, and I'm honestly alright with seeing how this plays out internally, were it not for the issue of it being a breeding ground for radicalisation. We have a pool of battle hardened young men being armed, ideologically charged based on ethnic supremacy, denouncing other sects of Islam as not true Muslims and reducing them to animals for slaughter.

Today they are fighting each other in Syria, yesteryear they were in Afghanistan. Hence the issue thats being planned isn't just Syria, its how to put the various sects of Islam in the ME back into a cold war scenario. Saddam kept the peace relative to the Western occupation through fear of the consequences, as did Assad, who is actually the more secular of the factions.

I'm also under the impression that this is Britain and France dragging the US into war, not the other way around...

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-08-26 21:21:28 UTC
Kirjava wrote:

I'm also under the impression that this is Britain and France dragging the US into war, not the other way around...

Sounds suspiciously like Libya.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

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