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Yet again on Proteus bandwidth increase.

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Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-08-24 16:48:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
I can't wait for the T3 nerfs.

I can't wait for the Megathron nerf.
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#22 - 2013-08-24 18:23:25 UTC
i have an idea. instead of nerfing ships that apparently outperform specialized ships...why not buff the under performing specialized ships so that they aren't being outdone anymore? problem solved. everyone happy.
PI Polly
SanctityEVEU
#23 - 2013-08-26 18:19:05 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
..problem solved. everyone happy.


And that's the main reason, why ships etc, will be bought down to level, instead of being pumped up. Impossible to please everyone in EVE.. Trolls will troll and whiners will whine.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-08-26 23:53:18 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
i have an idea. instead of nerfing ships that apparently outperform specialized ships...why not buff the under performing specialized ships so that they aren't being outdone anymore? problem solved. everyone happy.


why dont you google the term powercreep and then realize why your suggestion is not too smart.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#25 - 2013-08-27 01:32:13 UTC
Deliram wrote:
I'm just saying that AFTER the patch there will be no reason to use the proteus for mission/ratting. The difference will be huge

The Proteus will still have an edge over the Ishtar with regards to tank (10% per level bonus to reps), potential DPS (load all those low slots with Drone Damage Amps), and flexibility (unless you hardcore min/maxed your Proteus, you can change your PvE setup to PvP with a simple swap of subsystems and mods to create a ridiculous buffer tanked drone boat).

Deliram wrote:
Look at other races, i don't know them well beside the Tengu. Giving you a free cruiser hull T2 or T3, for missions and PVE what you will use? I think i will keep the tengu for caldari... Amarr and Minmtar hows for you?

The Tengu has always been above and beyond better than any T2 Caldari cruiser in PvE... simply because it has a VASTLY better sustained tank coupled with decent damage at range. After the patch the Cerberus may be able to pull off more DPS... but it will still lack the tank of the Tengu.
The Legion can pull off a super tanky Zealot or Sacrilege fit. This will not change after the patch.
The Loki... euuhhhhhhhhh... it was never really favored for PvE. And both T2 Minmatar cruisers are not either.

How did you Veterans start?
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-08-27 11:01:57 UTC
Deliram wrote:
I tried the seach but i only found over 1 year olds threads.. never posted on this part of the forum before so sorry for anything :p

I have seen some post about this in the past. Now that the Command ships and the assault cruiser get a nicely revamp i think there is a new problem for Gallente pilots like myself:
Mainly gallente ships pilots who focused heavly on drones.

For us, now that the ishtar and the Eos get finally better stats for they drones there is no reason to use the proteus. Maybe i mistake, but i thought that the role of a T3 cruiser was to be able(less skills requirement and quite more money) to match the stats of almost any kind of cruiser hull any given race had with the proper fit.

The 25 additional bandwidth can be placed on any subsystem i don't really care. Can be one of the already 2 drone-related subsystem, or a new one like the remote armor repairer subsystem. That would be great opening for new usefull fits too..

So what you think?


T3's should in all logic be revamp after CS/Hacs these being considered as "specialists" then get some data from TQ and get some figures on how to improve/nerf some of the T3 abilities.
Proteus drone sub is quite bad, at least far too bad for a T3 hull and deserves a lot of attention on this specific sub specially after the huge buff ishtar is getting, you'll have to wait about a year or so to see this happen.

T3's rebalance shouldn't be based on emotional posting from some players, and some seem really butt hurt when it comes to those, but rather after getting serious data from new HACs/CS performances, eventually but this is only an option consider players opinions from all sides which I strongly doubt.
The first idea it comes to me after these "specialist ships" rebalance is those T3's going no where but to the dusty part of your hangar for many years to come, because no one wants to train more SP and put FAR MORE isk on something not worth the buck, then the only thing it matters for numbers fleets is how well the cheapo throwaway stacks, guess who will win the opinion "war"?

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-08-27 11:21:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
i have an idea. instead of nerfing ships that apparently outperform specialized ships...why not buff the under performing specialized ships so that they aren't being outdone anymore? problem solved. everyone happy.



By all logic this is what you can expect when it comes to balance but sometimes, and this might as well be a matter of opinion vs current situation (not the person), well things are not so clear or so specialized as we could expect.

HACs have one and single role, dps dps dps dps so, the point being they must have about 30% more base tank than T1 version (figures based on some current numbers), this tank is supported by also better resists increasing global EHP quite significantly before links or/and implants.
Then the "thing" needs tools to achieve its job that is DPS, tools to apply it and bonus to do it.

Current version of HACs seems overall good, not perfect because you can see we're at 120+pages about it and opinions are so different except in certain cases that must be quite interesting and fun to be the one doing it, a lot of passion and interest in those pages shows how important this specific ship class rebalance will be.

ATM without any further change to T3's, with simple HACs rebalance T3's will already be outperformed in specific DPS role for miles and miles away.
Command sub/CShips bonus changes will also put CS on their right place and this is good, really good despite making me a sad panda because I'm strongly against T3's providing boosts, indeed training time for a Command ship and a T3 is really not the same at all not even close when T3/Hac are pretty close. T3's should be able to somewhat do spec cruiser size ships job but certainly not T2 Battlecruisers one, but again it's just my opinion.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Deliram
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-08-27 11:40:19 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
T3's should in all logic be revamp after CS/Hacs these being considered as "specialists" then get some data from TQ and get some figures on how to improve/nerf some of the T3 abilities.
Proteus drone sub is quite bad, at least far too bad for a T3 hull and deserves a lot of attention on this specific sub specially after the huge buff ishtar is getting, you'll have to wait about a year or so to see this happen.

T3's rebalance shouldn't be based on emotional posting from some players, and some seem really butt hurt when it comes to those, but rather after getting serious data from new HACs/CS performances, eventually but this is only an option consider players opinions from all sides which I strongly doubt.
The first idea it comes to me after these "specialist ships" rebalance is those T3's going no where but to the dusty part of your hangar for many years to come, because no one wants to train more SP and put FAR MORE isk on something not worth the buck, then the only thing it matters for numbers fleets is how well the cheapo throwaway stacks, guess who will win the opinion "war"?

Yep that's exactly what i fear, instead of having a ship that ADD something specific(new ishtar) we will have a ship that will sobstitue completly another(ishtar vs proteus) for many things.
In anomalies-missions-ratting you can have enoght DPS at the right distance to almost ignore the tanking, with the ishtar post patch. That means, more slot for for drone damage amplifier, and since it's already has 5 heavy/sentry it will go way off the dps chart in comparison to the proteus. And in this things the tanking once you move over 600 dps is not a concern.
Having that extra heavy drone will make the proteus still viable, yet inferior, to the isthar. But it will be safer to play in 0.0 with the proteus thanks to the interdiction nullifier AND since you will go without many drone link(because you can't pull out a very good sentry drone sniper fit) you will have more high slot for various utility, while having enought tank.
Ishtar will still be better by a great margin, but at least proteus will have something else to offer to appeal in some conditions.

The proteus have a better tanking, but only if it's not going all the way over the dps. Ishtar will have over double the effective dps of a proteus while standing at enought distance to don't care about tanking. If with a proteus you fit too many ampl you will have not much tanking and still do less effective dps than the ishtar.

Well.. i guess we should just wait and see what will happen as Acht Scultz is saying :-)

thanks for all the opinions anyway, it cleared my mind a bit about T2- T3 difference!
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