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Golem PVE fit

Author
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-08-25 23:13:57 UTC
I am working on a PVE fit for a Golem. The setup below seems to deliver about 800 dps and have a high safety factor. The Webifier is exchangable with an AB depending on mission. I don't plan on salvaging. My skills are V in most relevant categories. Thanks for any comments.

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II

Shield Boost Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
EM Ward Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Stasis Webifier II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II

Hobgoblin II x6
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2 - 2013-08-25 23:39:14 UTC
I presume the extender was meant to be a booster, as the boost amplifier is useless in that configuration.

However 800 dps from a marauder seems pointless.

Note my dominix does 1020 @ 30km, has a prop mod, and reaches to 99km with tolerable dps, and the kronos I use for the occasional mission where it can reach the npc's immediately or burn to them quickly does 1590 dps.
enigma marine
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#3 - 2013-08-25 23:41:48 UTC  |  Edited by: enigma marine
Droidster wrote:
I am working on a PVE fit for a Golem. The setup below seems to deliver about 800 dps and have a high safety factor. The Webifier is exchangable with an AB depending on mission. I don't plan on salvaging. My skills are V in most relevant categories. Thanks for any comments.

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II

Shield Boost Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
EM Ward Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Stasis Webifier II


Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II

Hobgoblin II x6

I don't actually see a booster in there? Also, with navy cruises, a second TP isn't very efficient. Personally i'd go with 1 tp one 1 web and navy missiles, and you get a bit more range with navy. Secondly, even without the RFCP rigs, fury missiles go well beyond lock range making them useless. Assuming you meant to fit a large booster instead of an extender that thing won't be close to cap stable(having the armor rep or the shield booster on will make your cap last >5 minutes. swapping those rigs for two t2 CCCs and a cap recharger for a TP will make you cap stable with just the shield booster. Personally, i'd also go a bit blingy like maybe a c-type booster or some faction hardeners or some such. And make sure you use mission specific hardeners obviously

Edit: as Taura said, you should probably go for torps, in which case 2 TPs and the rigs would make more sense, but then you run into the problem of being not very cap stable
stoicfaux
#4 - 2013-08-25 23:56:50 UTC
Use missile speed rigs, not the fuel ones. Same range, but you don't have to volley count out to 90+km and missiles moving that fast are immune to defenders out to ~15km and past 70km (or closer.)

I would use 4x BCUs instead of the DCU.

Are you flying solo or are you going to RR as part of a duo/team?

It looks like you're going to use a couple of sentry drones? If so, meh. IMO, just load up on light drones for frigate work.

Use a 3rd TP in place of the web to make TP juggling easier. Plus, a web is really too short range to be of much value against most elite NPC frigates.

If you're not going to salvage, and want a high safety factor, then consider selling the Golem and getting a Navy Scorpion instead.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-08-26 00:57:13 UTC
I haven't bought the Golem, was just planning it. On your advice I tried a Scorpion build. My first attempt:

Scorpion Navy Issue

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II

Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
100MN Afterburner II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II

Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x6

This build has 105k "effective hit points" compared to 75k for the Golem, but damage is 718 compared to the Golems 809.

How is defense normally measured? On EFT I just see hitpoints, sustained effective hit points per second (167 for build above) maximum effective hit points per second (406).
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-08-26 01:06:29 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:


I would use 4x BCUs instead of the DCU.



This seems illogical to me, according to the fitting tool.

If I fit the damage control my "effective hitpoints" goes from 54k to 75k !!! an enormous increase in defense, a 50% increase.

On the other hand, adding an additional BCU causes DPS to go from 809 to 861, which is respectable, but only a 6% increase.

I would think it is better to get a 50% increase in defense compared to a 6% increase in DPS.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-08-26 03:50:38 UTC
Droidster wrote:
I haven't bought the Golem, was just planning it. On your advice I tried a Scorpion build. My first attempt:

Scorpion Navy Issue

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II

Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
100MN Afterburner II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II

Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x6

This build has 105k "effective hit points" compared to 75k for the Golem, but damage is 718 compared to the Golems 809.

How is defense normally measured? On EFT I just see hitpoints, sustained effective hit points per second (167 for build above) maximum effective hit points per second (406).

nice drake wanna bee

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-08-26 03:54:48 UTC
Droidster wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:


I would use 4x BCUs instead of the DCU.



This seems illogical to me, according to the fitting tool.

If I fit the damage control my "effective hitpoints" goes from 54k to 75k !!! an enormous increase in defense, a 50% increase.

On the other hand, adding an additional BCU causes DPS to go from 809 to 861, which is respectable, but only a 6% increase.

I would think it is better to get a 50% increase in defense compared to a 6% increase in DPS.

the jump in hp from 54k to 75k is the armor and hull.
Are you running armor tank? NO.
Are you running hull tank? NO!
so wtf do you care that you got more armor tank and more hull tank! The only tank you care about is shield tank. The dc gives you some increase in shield tank, but it is not huge. To finish missions you need to kill stuff, so dps is more valuable here, a.k.a. dps tank. You kill them, they don't do any damage to you!

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
#9 - 2013-08-26 04:04:21 UTC
OP - please look into the difference between 'passive shield tank' and 'active shield tank'.

Then... stop putting shield extenders on an active tank ship, its sort of coutner productive.

I cannot speak for your weapon system - a corp member of mine uses a t2 torp golem, t2 rigged for range. The tank is a single t1 invulnerability field, a c-type large gist booster and a DG boost amp. She has an clone with a HG crystal set and usually drops the DG boost amp if using that clone.

Cruise received a buff recently so I imagine they might be worth having on a golem now.
I've done some really stupid shit in this game.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#10 - 2013-08-26 04:15:43 UTC
Droidster, it really seems like you're not really familiar with missions or at least how to run them effectively. Here are some general tips for you:

1. EHP (Effective Hit Points) or the total HP your ship has factoring in resists almost doesn't matter in missions, it only plays a role if you're using something like an Assault Frig where your EHP is so low you can get instapopped before doing anything. More EHP only helps if you're using a passive shield tank such as from a Drake, even then what you want is the added shield recharge not the actual EHP, but generally you should stay away from passive tanks for L4s. For Battleships their default EHP is more than enough to survive L4 mission alpha strikes (volley damage) and thus you shouldn't focus on increasing it at all.

2. What you want is dps tanked or EHP/sec from an active tank (that means a Shield Booster, Armor Repairer, or Shield Recharge). How much you need depends on many factors such as how much damage you can project, your aggro management etc.

3. Once you have a tank that is good enough to survive L4 missions, you should put all your other slots to work increasing your damage and damage application, in the case of missile boats, this means Large Rigor Catalyst Rigs, Large Rigor Flare Catalyst Rigs, Target Painters and Ballistic Control Units, as more tank does nothing for you but more damage will make you run missions faster therefore earning you more money.

4. Lastly there's a question of capacitor, if you want a very very safe ship you need to make sacrifices in damage and damage application in order to make your ship tank very hard for very long. Generally this is not the smartest route to go, as the more damage you can lay down, the faster the rats will die and the less you'll have to tank, the best way, in my opinion to deal with capacitor with active tanked missile BS is to use a Heavy Capacitor Booster, this way you can fuel your tank with the capacitor booster during the high initial spike of dps (before any rats are killed) and you can stop using it when you've killed enough rats to make the damage manageable without the cap booster.

Here's a really sturdy beginner Navy Scorpion (Navy Scorpion is a good beginner mission boat because of the massive tank):

[Scorpion Navy Issue, L4s]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
EM Ward Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
[Empty High slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

It has got an absolutely massive burst tank of 900 against Sanshas (it's weakest faction) and much more against other factions. It is a little tight on CPU and you'll need to faction the BCUs/Use a Co-Processor to get an Afterburner/MWD/MJD on there but it should get you through even the hardest missions with ease.

As you get better with missions you can drop some of the tank for more utility/damage. My general rule of thumb is Faction X-Large Booster + 3 Hardeners, which has never failed me even on a regular Raven that has less tank cause it doesn't get the resistance bonus.

/end massive wall of text

Good luck :)
enigma marine
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#11 - 2013-08-26 04:16:04 UTC
Even though it might seem counter intuitive, you should use 2 hardeners instead of a hardener and a ward amp. it is the resist stacking that is penalized, and so you get higher resists using 2 hardeners.
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-08-26 06:06:27 UTC  |  Edited by: The Spod
On your original Golem:
• swap the DCU to another ballistics
• swap the rigs to Rigor Catalyst II if cruise fit
• swap the passive resist for active
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#13 - 2013-08-26 07:00:34 UTC
If you're going to run an "end game" missions ship run "end game" mods. I prefer the Gist B x-large Shield booster, Dread Guristas Invuln, and a mission specific hardener. You want Fury and precision or Fury and navy, not just Navy CMs. 3 slots for your tank and maybe a rig is all you need.

Never put a shield extender on an active tank. You want hardeners and a shield booster. I personally never use a shield boost amplifier because it increases damage from overheating. The trick is to have the highest resistances against the specific rats you are fighting.

This site will show you the signature radius of every NPC ship. Then you can figure out if you are doing full damage. I know PYFA has a tool for it, not sure if EFT does or does not.

The SNI is probably your best bet as mentioned a couple times. I wouldn't want to use one as it would be slow, but its good "training wheels".

When you do get the golem, forget cap stable. 3:30 of cap with 600 tank is plenty to finish any regular l4.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#14 - 2013-08-26 07:35:19 UTC
Droidster wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:


I would use 4x BCUs instead of the DCU.



This seems illogical to me, according to the fitting tool.

If I fit the damage control my "effective hitpoints" goes from 54k to 75k !!! an enormous increase in defense, a 50% increase.

On the other hand, adding an additional BCU causes DPS to go from 809 to 861, which is respectable, but only a 6% increase.

I would think it is better to get a 50% increase in defense compared to a 6% increase in DPS.


I carry cap boosters in a dominix (ranged fit) to rep about 110,000 effective hitpoints after resistances - ie I can cycle the armor repper about 35 times total in a mission). The kronos can carry twice that amount, and it usually runs higher resistances, so it can probably rep 250,000 hitpoints in a mission (due to its short range it typically gets subject to more fire).

Most people judge PVE tank effectiveness not on total time to failure with the tank not cycling (EHP), but what effective hitpoints per second the tank is repping. My dominix for example typically reps 400 hp/sec vs kin/therm damage (for gurista or serpentis).

I think you are overemphasizing the only somewhat relevant EHP stat without looking at your repped amount/sec. ie I would sometimes bring as little as 35k EHP in a battleship to a mission. Its not critical at all unless the mission is allowed to go over the repped amount for damage. That happens rarely with 1000 dps.


Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-08-26 08:46:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Whiite
this is how I used to run my SNI.



High:

6x Cruise launcher T2
1x Drone Arngement link

Mid

- CN XL Shield booster
- Shield booster amplifier T2
- Rat Specific Hardener T2
- Invunrability field T2/ CN Invunrability field
- MJD/ AB T2
- 2x Republic Target painter

Low

- 3x CN BCU
- BCU T2 / CN BCU (4th CN BCU gives little dps, but it wil save CPU)
- Drone Damage T2

Rigs

- 2x Rigor T1
- 1x Flare T1
(Extra Calibration post June leaves space open for T2 rigs and maybe some experimentation)


5x Hobgoblin T2'
5X Hammerhead T2.


put in some implants and you have a 1000+ DPS ships that is probably the one of the best value for money PVE runners out there.
Lucretia DeWinter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-08-26 19:09:21 UTC
Golem takes a lot of skilling to really get the best out of it. Until you get All V for a lot of skills, the Navy Raven does better for way less money.

Here's the fit I use on the Golem:

[Golem, Golem ]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Gistum B-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field (comparable price to Caldari Navy ones with slightly better performance)
Gistum B-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy EM Ward Amplifier (saves having to swap out for mission specific active hardeners all the time)
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron (I swap one TP for an ECCM if I'm doing a lot of Gurista missions)
Cap Recharger II

Torpedo Launcher II, Scourge Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Scourge Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Scourge Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Scourge Rage Torpedo
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II
Auto Targeting System II (utility slot - can really be used for anything, but I find the ATS provides most usefulness for me)

Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


Resists EM 75 / TH 77 / KN 80 / EX 81
Perma tanks 410 DPS
Cap Stable at 37%
(upgrade to a costly Gistum A Type for 424 perma boost at 57% cap, or an expensive Pithum A Type for 546 at 37%)
If money is no object, or just EFT Warrior, go silly ISK mania with the Pithum A medium booster and a Crystal Set for perma running 800 DPS shield boost (and a large Gank Me sign on your back)

Dishes out 1416 DPS (inc drones, 1258 without) at 36.5km with Rage
Dishes out 996 DPS (inc drones, 838 without) at 65.6km with Javelin.


A Navy Raven can put out mostly very close DPS, but seems to top out at around 1150 when maxed out, so the Golem has a top end DPS edge and better tank with level V skills and a moderately blingy fit. So, I would only go for a Golem if you really want to or have the skills for it already. Or, if you think they'll get a good buff in the balance pass when they eventually get around to Marauders.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-08-26 20:04:24 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Droidster wrote:
I haven't bought the Golem, was just planning it. On your advice I tried a Scorpion build. My first attempt:

Scorpion Navy Issue

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II

Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
100MN Afterburner II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II

Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x6

This build has 105k "effective hit points" compared to 75k for the Golem, but damage is 718 compared to the Golems 809.

How is defense normally measured? On EFT I just see hitpoints, sustained effective hit points per second (167 for build above) maximum effective hit points per second (406).


Wow... Just wow!

Passive and active shield tank combo, DCU, T2 launchers with T1 ammo. My eyes burn!

Oh and EHP isn't helping you on a PVE ship..
Lucretia DeWinter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-08-26 20:58:10 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Droidster wrote:
I haven't bought the Golem, was just planning it. On your advice I tried a Scorpion build. My first attempt:

Scorpion Navy Issue

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II

Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
100MN Afterburner II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Precision Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Large Core Defense Field Purger II

Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x6

This build has 105k "effective hit points" compared to 75k for the Golem, but damage is 718 compared to the Golems 809.

How is defense normally measured? On EFT I just see hitpoints, sustained effective hit points per second (167 for build above) maximum effective hit points per second (406).


Wow... Just wow!

Passive and active shield tank combo, DCU, T2 launchers with T1 ammo. My eyes burn!

Oh and EHP isn't helping you on a PVE ship..


Shield Maintenance Bots won't rep yourself either, only something you can target.
Steve Spooner
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-08-27 15:17:22 UTC
Fact of the matter is with the recent changes the marauders are neglected and their bonus of tractor range is completely and utterly worthless. Noctis does that way better and the CNR/Rattlesnake do better than the golem, and is cheaper.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#20 - 2013-08-27 16:20:17 UTC
Steve Spooner wrote:
Fact of the matter is with the recent changes the marauders are neglected and their bonus of tractor range is completely and utterly worthless.

False. I use it and love it.
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