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Chimera build

Author
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#1 - 2013-08-24 10:34:52 UTC
Hello all

After some searching I've failed to locate what I want so I'll ask here

I need a chimera build. One for just mucking around as I may end up in a wormhole sooner or later and would like to have a big bad ass ship.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#2 - 2013-08-24 20:59:40 UTC
okay so since noone has posted yet I'll get the ball rolling myself?

Highs: 3x heavy neuts, 2x drone controls
mids: 2x invulnerability fields, 1x em ward, 1x capital shield booster, 2x drone tracking mod, 1x drone speed mod
lows: 3x drone damage amps, 1x pdu

rigs: 1x thermal shield II, 2x shield boost safeguard II

loadout will include a small army of small/medium/heavy drones as well as complimentary sentries and one flight of fighters.

let me know what you think o space guru's
enigma marine
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#3 - 2013-08-24 21:18:26 UTC
What will you be doing with it? Your fit is entirely dependent on that. Also, unless you are planning on joining a c5 wh corp, that chimmy won't be coming with you
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2013-08-24 23:56:29 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
I'm feeling charitable today...

[Chimera, Terribad Triage]

[Lows]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Co-Processor II

[Mids]
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Capital Shield Booster I
Cap Recharger II

[Highs]
Triage Module II
Capital Shield Transporter I
Capital Shield Transporter I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I
[empty high slot]

[Rigs]
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Semiconductor Memory Cell I

[Drones]
10x Garde IIs

Stats (with level 5 skills):
- can tank a little over ~5k damage per second (~18k damage per second in Tirage Mode).
- capacitor power runs out in ~2.5 minutes with everything on (1.3 minutes in Triage Mode). With the Remote Repairs and Energy transfers off it goes up to ~14 minutes (4.5 minutes in Tirage Mode).
- has ~1.4 million effective hit points.
- moves at 81 m/sec (0 m/sec in Triage Mode)
- deals ~600 damage per second (0 damage per second in Triage Mode)

Notes:
- yes... it is a terribad fit (and I feel ashamed for posting it). But that's more because it's a pain in the ass to get around the CPU issue without completely gimping the fit (which is already pretty gimpy).
- This fit is better suited for repairing POSs when you expect there to be hostiles.
- no... you cannot use any drones or move under your own power while in Triage Mode.
- Triage Mode lasts about 5 minutes
- The Tech 2 Triage Module has a "hidden bonus" that cuts the power need of Remote Repairs. So if you use the Tech 1 version your capacitor need is going to be much higher and your staying power lower (capacitor power is "life" on a capital ship).


Here's something that might be more doable... provided you can find some friends.

[Chimera, Possibly Viable Pantheon Setup?]

[Lows]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

[Mids]
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

[Highs]
Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Shield Transporter I
Capital Shield Transporter I
Capital Shield Transporter I

[Rigs]
Capital Core Defense Field Extender I
Capital Core Defense Field Extender I
Capital Core Defense Field Extender I

[Drones]
Firbolg x10
Garde II x10
Curator II x10

Stats (with level 5 skills AND one partner ship with the same setup):
- can tank a little over ~5k damage per second.
- capacitor power runs out in ~6.8 minutes with everything on (~45% stable with one Remote Repair off).
- has ~1.6 million effective hit points.
- moves at 81 m/sec.
- deals ~1000 damage per second.

Notes:
- yes... this is also a terribad fit (and I still feel ashamed for posting it). This time the issue is the Chimera's horrible capacitor.
- The idea here is that you are completely dependent on friends for repairs and energy. The pro of this method is that is scales very well into larger fleets... the con is that if you lose one too many friends, the whole setup collapses and everyone dies.
- The more friends you bring, the bigger everyone's tank will be (because there are more Remote Repairs to go around).
- For added effectiveness, have one or two guys set up exclusively to give capacitor to everyone.
- Run it like you would any "normal" logistics chain... minus the mobility.
- Fighters cannot reliably hit anything smaller than a cruiser and when you deploy Sentry Drones while moving they are as good as lost (unless you are willing to sit still).
- I think a Nidhoggur (supposedly the most gimpy of the carriers) might pull off a better Pantheon setup due to its bonuses (extra repair amounts per level). However Archons are preferred simply because most capital ships used are armor based and it has vastly superior capacitor power.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#5 - 2013-08-25 11:35:18 UTC
Some very interesting comments here. I literally have no idea what is involved with a capital ship let alone a carrier so any input (even failfits) are welcome to me.

The purpose of my fit would be entirely experimental at this stage, something I can muck about in and not die to a single scramming frigate that calls in back up. Mostly I'll be prototyping this build on SiSi some day provided it syncs with me at a time where i have the skills to fly one, I am mostly curious in seeing if the chimera can be used competently on the offensive at all or if it is a purely logistics support ship.

Terms like pantheon and slowcats etc make no sense to me as I have 0 experience in capitals. A quick rundown on why my fit is terribad would be greatly appreciated.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2013-08-25 20:45:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Some very interesting comments here. I literally have no idea what is involved with a capital ship let alone a carrier so any input (even failfits) are welcome to me.

The best advice I can give is to hang out with people who do actually do use capital ships. There are a large amount of logistics that go into the deployment of even just one (unless people can easily afford another one, are drunk, dumb, insane, or some combination thereof).

edit: one thing I can tell you is that capital ships cannot use stargates at all. They require fuel (oxygen/helium/hydrogen/nitrogen isotopes) and a 2nd party to light a Cynosaural beacon in another system (which requires liquid ozone as fuel) that your ship can "lock on" and jump directly to.

Caleb Seremshur wrote:
The purpose of my fit would be entirely experimental at this stage, something I can muck about in and not die to a single scramming frigate that calls in back up. Mostly I'll be prototyping this build on SiSi some day provided it syncs with me at a time where i have the skills to fly one, I am mostly curious in seeing if the chimera can be used competently on the offensive at all or if it is a purely logistics support ship.

At its core, a Carrier is a logistics and support ship. It CAN be shoehorned into a DPS role but, to be perfectly honest, battleships would perform better as they are more mobile, often deal more damage, and cost MUCH less when lost.

As far as frigates go... having VERY good drone skills and Warrior II drones can help swat away most isolated threats. Heavy Energy Neutralizers also help too. However they won't help much against superfast ships (ships that move >4500 m/sec) that stay out at range (>25-30km) without special drone mods being fit to the carrier (which is not recommended as that will slightly gimp you in your primary roles/specialties).
And if you are greeted by a group of [5+] cruisers or battleships outside of station docking range with little to no support fleet... you are pretty much a dead man.

Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Terms like pantheon and slowcats etc make no sense to me as I have 0 experience in capitals.

I'm a little rusty so someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Triage Setup: your job is simple... keep your support fleet and yourself alive. You cannot receive any remote assistance from your fleet while you are Triage mode... however the cycle time for your fitted tank is halved and the repair amount doubled (I think). The same applies for the remote assistance you can give.
This means that you have to micromanage which modules are active and which are not as its very easy to run out of capacitor power (making you and your allies "soft targets").

If you have a buddy carrier on field you can employ a decently effective tactic using Triage: One will go intro Triage Mode to support allies while the other one gives limited support and waits. When the first carrier comes out of Triage mode its capacitor and tank are usually running low... so the second carrier will go into Triage and save the floundering carrier along with allies. Rinse and repeat.

Pantheon/Slowcat Setup: I'm pretty sure there is a critical difference between these two setups, but I can't remember. Regardless, they do have similarities.
The basic idea is to forgo any local repair system on your own ship in favor of pure resistances, capacitor generation, and friendly support. This is not a solo tactic and requires a minimum of 1 or 2 allies (recommended 5 or 6+) in similar ships with similar setups.
This setup can be (and often is) used in an offensive role... however logistical support is still a big deal and should be your primary focus (because if one person dies you lose the remote assistance he/she could have provided, reducing everyone's overall tanking power).
DPS comes primarily from drones... Sentry Drones being preferred as they are basically mini-battlecruiser turrets that you can deploy in space. The pitfall with these things is that they are stationary and if you move beyond 2500m from them you need to backtrack to collect them (which isn't really an option for a fat ass carrier... so, as said above, they are pretty much lost).

Caleb Seremshur wrote:
A quick rundown on why my fit is terribad would be greatly appreciated.

Again... what do you intend on doing with it? I can't give any advice without there being a focus (note: the larger the ship, the less you can get away with "kitchen sinking" it. This is especially true for captials which rely far more on crunching raw numbers than player skill).
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-08-25 21:47:43 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Some very interesting comments here. I literally have no idea what is involved with a capital ship let alone a carrier so any input (even failfits) are welcome to me.


Whatever you decide on, head over to SiSi test server to try it out before you go Leeroy into a WH with it.
enigma marine
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#8 - 2013-08-25 22:17:25 UTC  |  Edited by: enigma marine
As Shah said, those are basically the only two ways to use a carrier in pvp, and both need a good support fleet/buddys. The only other two uses for carrier are "briefcasing" and ratting. Briefcasing is using the cargo hold, fleet hangar, and ship maintenance bay to carry your stuff around. ratting is fairly obvious, using drones to kill rats in an empty nullsec system for money. Also as Shah said, you will basically need a second account to light a cyno for you, or a very trusted friend. And any carrier that is caught without support is dead, because there are plenty of groups that will drop a 50-100k dps just to kill a lone carrier, and they can do it in under 60 seconds.

Best of luck in your endeavor with the carrier
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#9 - 2013-08-26 10:22:10 UTC
Thanks for the helpful messages guys. I was predominantly going to use it for FW or WH operations as I have connections in both and I thought it would be fun to fly one.

A bit disappointing to see that carriers are kinda 2-dimensional although devil's advocate your standard T1 ship would be lucky to have more than 4 viable uses anyway..

I'm hoping to test it on SiSi running anomolies at first, all I know is that when I get attacked by a carrier they HURT but that's probably just speaking from the perspective of someone in a sub-cap.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-08-27 12:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
all I know is that when I get attacked by a carrier they HURT but that's probably just speaking from the perspective of someone in a sub-cap.



Full high of drone control units, read gank fit a carrier always hurts, but so it does a battleship for way cheaper, difference being your carrier has about 1.2M EHP and BS at best 200K EHP, your BS can easily pass the 1.2K DPS mark your carrier even with tops skills you can't without sacrificing a lot, you'll need several BS to kill that carrier in just under a minute which makes the current carriers form "meh" to me and not worth the buck but to be transport ships.

Just an opinion of course since you can do the same for cheaper except dps and rep at the same time which carriers are good over dps BS/logi cruisers, they're necessary if you live in low/null to move your stuff around, eventually get annoyed by someone to rep structures, but pass this mark carriers are not that much interesting to fly or have and specially not because of the amount of dps they can dish and then you figure quite fast once you have the skills for you can fly the super cap version...

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#11 - 2013-08-27 15:11:38 UTC
OP, you might this video interesting. This is a fleet op of the wormhole corp Adhocracy, shot from the POV of a triage carrier pilot. He is flying an Archon.

http://youtu.be/lh5e5SFdk08

IMO, it's not dull or 2-dimensional at all, there's a crapton to keep up with and you wouldn't want a carrier pilot with slow reaction times in your fleet.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl

Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#12 - 2013-09-02 20:10:53 UTC
I've taken a while to process several more videos including the one you've linked here.

While I can appreciate the need for competent logi pilots at any level of engagement I still have some trouble understanding the design of the carrier. Particularly the fighters themselves as they're not that much better than standard drones and as some have pointed out they aren't very good at applying dps. Yet when running eft on to a super which gets 10k dps from fighter bombers which is like 8x as much dps?

If the archon is a more popular/superior choice to the chimera where is the chimera useful and in particular does the carrier at all perform like the real life vessel or is this the realm of supers? Would the balancing pass when it reaches capitals condemn the carrier to just logistics like it did with certain frigates and cruisers? Or will we see carriers get drone damage bonuses/fighters made more valuable?
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-09-02 21:35:58 UTC  |  Edited by: The Spod
Ask your corp to provide you with a carrier. I'm sure they'll direct you to their conception of minimum requirements and trust to fly and get one. Start with lighting cynos and working along carriers, using the refit services etc. Do logistics runs with them for your friends. Don't field it for PVP unless your friends decide to commit several capitals in coordination.

Or do everything the odd way because it's the best way to learn :) If a carrier feels cheap for you (2-3B) then just try one.