Crime & Punishment

...this sounds soo f-ing wrong

All that needs be done is that "bumping" is removed from the game and realistic damage on ramming/impact is introduced.

Let's envisage you in a a Brutix bumping my freighter? If mechanics were done properly, it wouldn't be happening. EVER. The Brutix would, ofcourse impact the hull of the freighter without the freighter even noticing it's presence.

What is currently in the game, isn't bumping. It's automatic avoidance between two possible collidible objects and re-establishing safe distance. If I warp to a bookmark that's technically inside an asteroid, I should splat on it's surface. Not bounce away from it 120km away as if my ship was a gumball.

I'll let each and every person in this thread, try to alter an oil tankers path by hitting it with a rowboat. Be my guest.

From what I understand, bumping a freighter off of a gate is perfectly acceptable. Especially if you do not follow it to another system. Sure, you might sit at the spot where the freighter logged out, but this would not really be harassment, as you stayed within the same system instead of chasing them. And they are not stuck either, and can leave whenever they want, assuming they are willing to eject. It could be a business plan if you started ransoming them as well.

Food for thought.

So bumping someone off grid then demanding payment or you will continue to bump them or gank them is a legal action? is that not harassment by this definition since the victim would have to declare war themselves to stop the bumping or pay a fee and would member of the same corp/alliance/group working together count? IE driving people out of a area via bumping and ganking without declaring war?

I think that PvP bumping should completly be removed from the game. It's an exploit... Bumping slower ships with already long aligning times can prevent them from warping with or without any wardec of yellow flags. This means you can limit a player's movement for hours if you want. Logging off means the solution, but that also limits a player in free movement. There are some exploits around this, so I think, much headache could be spared if PvP bumping would be removed.

For those who gank miners... Aren't miners the ones who dig rocks to sell the minerals that you ships are built by? If you gank all miners in EvE, than you can fly with your pods, smile and bump each other.
Why doesn't you PvP enjoying guy shoot each other? Or shoot something that shoots back? Miers are usually guys with low skills, and not much experience in EVE. If you gank them, then they will say: "OMG, EVE sucks!" and leave the game for good. Instead I have a better idea: teach them how to PvP, and on one day they might join you in roaming, and have fun together.

Nowadays corps wardec smaller mining corps just for the killboards, and use all their dirty tactics to achieve kills. Usually on miners who does not even have the chance to defend themselves. I think, this is becoming a trend nowadays, and I'm pretty sure that many people would consider leaveing EVE because of this, it's not becoming about having fun, but causing other players losses, some losses that they can't recover, or just in long time.

I'm sure, after this post, many you minerganker guys will call me a whining miner, but I would say to those peeps to try it on the other side. Even I could bust some lonely miners in lowsec who mine alone, but I didn't, because I know what it's like being killed without the chance to defend myself. Many of you don't know what honorable combat is... Not even to shoot on something that can shoot back...

I accept that if it happens within the rules of the game, by webifiers or warp scrams/distruptors, but not by bumping. That has no reaction that the game mechanism can respond with. And why shouldn't? Because this is not a jail. I like to play hide and seek when I have room to move, at least one step.
In this game everything has a countermove to respond with. Bumping doesn't. So on one side player A who wants to catch another does something, like scramming, then player B uses stabs to prevent A from catching, then A equips more scrams, and so on, the chances are equal. When being bumped, B can do nothing but log off to prevent A from escaping.


Yeah, usual reaciton. Just try that a few times when have no spare isk and ships, and it won't be funny after all..

It doesn't limit anything and shouldn't be removed.

You want to stop being bumped, fight back or warp away and find an alternative route. It's not difficult.



It's only the highsec miners that complain. There is plenty of mining going on in lowsec and nullsec that provide resources to build items for the market.

The difference between the highsec and lowsec/nullsec miners though is that the highsec miners have no real interaction with the game. They don't play the game to it's full extent. In many cases, that may be because they are new and haven't learnt all of the different ways to play Eve, so they play the most isolated, unengaged, lonely form of Eve there is.

A large section of gankers, and particularly the bumpers are interested in educating players, not really in bumping or ganking them. They'd be more than happy if the highsec miners chose to move to lowsec/nullsec or decided to learn pvp and fight back, perhaps moved to wormhole space - a whole host of things that result in greater knowledge and much greater interaction with other players. Eve is a social game and AFK mining is the most antisocial, anti-Eve way to play it.




It's not about the shooting. It's about educating and it's not true that miners can't shoot back. They can and should. They're going to lose their mining ship anyway, so may as well shoot back or have some combat drones. Or better yet, start talking to othr players, get organised into a Corp, develop a plan of defense and actually implement it.

The most common response is to rage and make idol threats and continue playing the game AFK whenever they can get away with it. Boring.

Miners have the same choices as every other player in the game. They have access to the same tools and mechanics. So they have exactly the same chance to defend themselves as other players do.




Ganks in highsec happen generally against two classes of player:

1. Players who are generally new to the game, but who've been playing long enough that they should have discvoered more depth to the game than mining in highsec, often AFK; and

2. players with a lot of experience in the game who are hauling valuable cargo through highsec, knowing they'll be at risk.

Group 2 know they may be ganked and don't rage when it happens. They know how the game works and they accept it and figure out what they need to do to avoid the situation in the future (and get revenge in the present in many cases).

Group 1 though are the one's ready to consider rage quitting the first time they are ganked, or file a petition so that someone else can be responsible for acting against the ganker. They don't accept their own responsibility for the situation and then work out how they can play the game to get what they want. They just winge and whine and try to get others to fix their situation.

If they want to quit, good riddance to them. They don't offer anything to the game to begin with, so it's no big loss (and despite claims that this will hurt CCPs bottom line, evidence of player numbers suggests this isn't true).



You have never been killed without the chance to defend yourself. Even in a pod you have choices and can always defend yourself - directly then, at a meta level, later in game. There are always options.

As for honorable combat - there's just combat. Honour doesn't come into it (except in the words in pop-up window when a duel takes place). You win, lose or run away before you lose. Each of them is acceptable and nothing to do with 'honor'. It's internet pixels, not RL.

Bumper boats is and always will be the dumbest mechanic in EVE. "Emergent gameplay" lol.

Time for a fresh faced convert to pvp's opinion. I present three scenarios and a chart of my own design.

Scenario #1
"A cruiser bumping an orca out of alignment to prevent it from warping off while waiting for tackle to get on grid."
All but the orca pilot and other victims of this tactic would agree that this is a brilliant use of gameplay mechanics for the furtherance of holy pew.

Scenario #2
"An army of catalysts swarming a freighter to push it away from the CONCORD blob during a freighter killing event."
While committed for the furtherance of holy pew, is a hazier use of the collision mechanic. It does require teamwork however and bringing such a ship down in high sec is a glorious feat no matter how it is accomplished.

Scenario #3
"A dread (or some ship) warping to zero on a fleet member sitting next to a pos shield with the intent of bumping a parked cap out of the shielded space."
This, I believe (third hand tales from old eve vets), was the tactic "Pos bowling" and was declared an exploit and bannable offense by CCP.

So on a scale of creative battle tactic to bannable offense where does miner bumping fall?

Tactic(0)----------1---------2----------3----------4----------5----------6----------7----------8----------9----------Exploit(10)
-------------------Bump--------------------------------------------------bump---------------------------------------------Bump
----------------an aligning----------------------------------------a freighter away--------------------------------Docked Caps
--------------escaping ship-----------------------------------from CONCORD/Gate------------------------Out of pos shield

I'm leaning towards placing it in the same category as the bumping tactic used by suicide gank fleets killing freighters, between 5 and at most 8. Very hazy stuff, but there is still no specific rule/game mechanic set in place to prevent it. It probably should be reviewed by CCP in more detail.

On the one hand, bumping miners, while annoying, is not as damaging as ganking them outright. It is easy enough to avoid a bumping when the bumping is not specifically directed at one character, just log/relog and relocate to some less turbulent system. (granted, a particularly teary mark will be searched out and bumped ad nauseum purely for the lulz)

On the other hand, bumping is in theory defeating Eve's philosophy of no action without reaction. Bumping for sport and especially bumping for tears and profit is probably too safe for the reward it provides to the bumper. It can't really be made a suspect offense, because places like Jita would become blood soaked lands of death (fun sounding, but probably not advisable). AND many mining ops would become fair targets to players looking to spread the joyous doctrine of holy pew to the peaceful systems of high sec (ala orca warps to zero on ice belt, bumps three retrievers, suddenly suspect flags everywhere).

Like I said above, this topic should probably be reviewed in more detail by CCP.

edit: I need to get out of this npc corp