EVE General Discussion

"Like"... uh, you second guess people a lot don't you?

It's a pretty straight forward question.

Considering we are talking about suicide ganking? Yes, I'm pretty sure. Let me go double check the progress of the conversation just in case...





Yep, still sure. But I will allow this... you probably only ****** up by quoting in order to inject your statement.

It wasn't needed.

It was a pretty straight forward answer.

I've heard of people using up to 7 ships for a single kill. For your typical miner back in the days of all yield you could do it with one. Since I don't actually participate in any way, shape or form to this activity, I rightly couldn't tell you exactly how many ships it takes with the new changes. All I know is catalysts do cost money, and miners that explode may drop enough to cover the cost. The risk is the loot fairy, she's typically not nice, in my experience. And you may not destroy your target and worse, your target may not even have anything worth getting, so it's hard to say exactly what percentage of risk is involved in fitting a gank catalyst, but those are what determines your level of risk and they are always present.

Obviously, the undebatable point is that suicide ganking is a profitable business, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue. But miners are as much to blame as anyone, as I can think of ways to make sure you are protected from suicide ganking that doesn't involve using an alt to spawn CONCORD in the belt. As it has been argued by someone else, risk on the miners part can be negated through skill and opportunity, which would obviously increase the risk to the ganker.

Personally, according to the fund I just picked for my new IRA my threshold is very high, I went as aggressive as I possibly could, which may not be the best idea considering the delicate state of the current economy, but I got 30 years before I can retire anyway, so here goes nothing. If you asked me what I thought was an acceptable risk percentage, I'd go with 20-30%.

But you didn't answer.

it probably changes the merit of the word, it's irrelevant. risk is still there, it has just been moved.

i feel those things when suicide ganking, but not with respect to "push button, see target turn to spacedust" risk has been shifted elsewhere within the process of suicide ganking.

In a discussion weighing the word cost versus risk, it is very relevant.

Risk is the potential of loss (an undesirable outcome, however not necessarily so) resulting from a given action, activity and/or inaction. The notion implies that a choice having an influence on the outcome sometimes exists (or existed). Potential losses themselves may also be called "risks". Any human endeavor carries some risk, but some are much riskier than others.

Risk can be defined in seven different ways

1. The probability of something happening multiplied by the resulting cost or benefit if it does.

2. The probability or threat of quantifiable damage, injury, liability, loss, or any other negative occurrence that is caused by external or internal vulnerabilities, and that may be avoided through preemptive action.

3. Finance: The probability that an actual return on an investment will be lower than the expected return. Financial risk can be divided into the following categories: Basic risk, Capital risk, Country risk, Default risk, Delivery risk, Economic risk, Exchange rate risk, Interest rate risk, Liquidity risk, Operations risk, Payment system risk, Political risk, Refinancing risk, Reinvestment risk, Settlement risk, Sovereign risk, and Underwriting risk.

4. Food industry: The possibility that due to a certain hazard in food there will be an negative effect to a certain magnitude.

5. Insurance: A situation where the probability of a variable (such as burning down of a building) is known but when a mode of occurrence or the actual value of the occurrence (whether the fire will occur at a particular property) is not. A risk is not an uncertainty (where neither the probability nor the mode of occurrence is known), a peril (cause of loss), or a hazard (something that makes the occurrence of a peril more likely or more severe).

6. Securities trading: The probability of a loss or drop in value. Trading risk is divided into two general categories: (1) Systematic risk affects all securities in the same class and is linked to the overall capital-market system and therefore cannot be eliminated by diversification. Also called market risk. (2) Nonsystematic risk is any risk that isn't market-related or is not systemic. Also called nonmarket risk, extra-market risk, diversifiable risk, or unsystemic risk.

7. Workplace: Product of the consequence and probability of a hazardous event or phenomenon. For example, the risk of developing cancer is estimated as the incremental probability of developing cancer over a lifetime as a result of exposure to potential carcinogens (cancer-causing substances).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk

In production, research, retail, and accounting, a cost is the value of money that has been used up to produce something, and hence is not available for use anymore. In business, the cost may be one of acquisition, in which case the amount of money expended to acquire it is counted as cost. In this case, money is the input that is gone in order to acquire the thing. This acquisition cost may be the sum of the cost of production as incurred by the original producer, and further costs of transaction as incurred by the acquirer over and above the price paid to the producer. Usually, the price also includes a mark-up for profit over the cost of production.

More generalized in the field of economics, cost is a metric that is totaling up as a result of a process or as a differential for the result of a decision.[1] Hence cost is the metric used in the standard modeling paradigm applied to economic processes.

Costs (pl.) are often further described based on their timing or their applicability.

Cost estimation
Main articles: Cost estimation, Cost overrun, and parametric estimating

When developing a business plan for a new or existing company, product, or project, planners typically make cost estimates in order to assess whether revenues/benefits will cover costs (see cost-benefit analysis). This is done in both business and government. Costs are often underestimated, resulting in cost overrun during execution.

Cost-plus pricing, is where the price equals cost plus a percentage of overhead or profit margin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost

For posterity.

Yes, you do yourself a disservice when you ignore it. Stop ignoring it.

That's not how it works, buddy. Just because I am willing to risk losing everything 20-30% of the time does not remove the sense of danger or remove the fact that I am taking a risk. As a nullsec player, this is my life, I lose ships all the time. There has never, not once, been a single loss where I didn't feel a sense of danger. I undock knowing full well I may lose my ship, and by undocking I accept that fact, but that has never removed any sense of danger, unease or tension I have felt. I have never thought once while going into structure that this was merely a cost of doing business and shrugged it off. And whether or not I chose to accept a risk doesn't suddenly make a risk not a risk.

To apply this to another argument you have made, I personally think 20-30% is an acceptable risk, but Scaredy McGee thinks even 1 loss is too much and is an unacceptable risk, but Swinging Balls McClellan doesn't care, he could lose 100% of the time and it is acceptable. Since not 100% of the people agree, who is right? By McClellans lead, do we all just write it off as cost, or do we go by McGee's example and say every single loss is a risk?

Personally, I say McGee, only because it doesn't really matter what is acceptable to anyone. What matters is, did you buy something with the intention of making a profit and the chance of making that profit is not a guarantee? Then there is risk involved, always. A gamble, as I recall you claimed it was, but we all know gambling is a fancy way of saying taking risks.

Anywho, enjoyed our debates, but I must leave for now. Feel free to reply, I will return later to respond if necessary.