These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

What is wrong with wormhole space?

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#241 - 2013-08-21 23:20:09 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:

Onomerous wrote:
Second: Economics is the reason why what it produces is important!! Supply, demand, etc.? Yeah, that stuff. The actual loot is not important but what it makes and how much it is worth is very important.

are you seriously trying to suggest WH pve isnt profitable enough?
and did you pull it off with a straight face? because that would be quite an accomplishment.



Where did I suggest more profitable? Did you pull it off with a straight face? Because THAT would be quite an accomplishment.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#242 - 2013-08-22 03:07:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Chris Winter wrote:
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
I FRICKING REMEMBERD!!!!
Remove odyssey scanner from wspace (at least the auto update option and overlay). Please.
I think most of us agree.

It only auto-updates when a sig despawns. When a new sig spawns, you don't see it until you've refreshed the list somehow.

this isnt true, new sigs come up automatically.

Onomerous wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:

Onomerous wrote:
Second: Economics is the reason why what it produces is important!! Supply, demand, etc.? Yeah, that stuff. The actual loot is not important but what it makes and how much it is worth is very important.

are you seriously trying to suggest WH pve isnt profitable enough?
and did you pull it off with a straight face? because that would be quite an accomplishment.

Where did I suggest more profitable? Did you pull it off with a straight face? Because THAT would be quite an accomplishment

then your point is..... what exactly?
that you want to make product B instead of product A? sure, seems like a super important change.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#243 - 2013-08-22 13:54:12 UTC
OK, I'll go slow for you:

Quote:
Who cares what the PVE produces? Isk is Isk and if it comes from implants or t3 subs or just blue loot makes no difference.


If the end product made by WH loot isn't valuable then the loot isn't worth much either. In that case, the income goes down (demand down = less value). With some 'bright' individuals so utterly convinced T3 ships have to be nerfed to hell and back, the result will be less demand for T3 ships. What does less demand do to T3 prices? Anyone? Bueller? That's right... the value goes down!! It doesn't make as much of a difference in higher level WH but C1-C3 it would hurt. So what the WH loot makes is in fact very important to isk production.

You seem to have a something stuck under your saddle about something. Just say whatever it is and stop trying to be so witty (because it isn't working).
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#244 - 2013-08-22 14:14:11 UTC
Onomerous wrote:
OK, I'll go slow for you:

Quote:
Who cares what the PVE produces? Isk is Isk and if it comes from implants or t3 subs or just blue loot makes no difference.


If the end product made by WH loot isn't valuable then the loot isn't worth much either. In that case, the income goes down (demand down = less value). With some 'bright' individuals so utterly convinced T3 ships have to be nerfed to hell and back, the result will be less demand for T3 ships. What does less demand do to T3 prices? Anyone? Bueller? That's right... the value goes down!! It doesn't make as much of a difference in higher level WH but C1-C3 it would hurt. So what the WH loot makes is in fact very important to isk production.

You seem to have a something stuck under your saddle about something. Just say whatever it is and stop trying to be so witty (because it isn't working).

soooo.... you ARE complaining about profit margins. got it. thanks.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#245 - 2013-08-23 13:36:21 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Onomerous wrote:
OK, I'll go slow for you:

Quote:
Who cares what the PVE produces? Isk is Isk and if it comes from implants or t3 subs or just blue loot makes no difference.


If the end product made by WH loot isn't valuable then the loot isn't worth much either. In that case, the income goes down (demand down = less value). With some 'bright' individuals so utterly convinced T3 ships have to be nerfed to hell and back, the result will be less demand for T3 ships. What does less demand do to T3 prices? Anyone? Bueller? That's right... the value goes down!! It doesn't make as much of a difference in higher level WH but C1-C3 it would hurt. So what the WH loot makes is in fact very important to isk production.

You seem to have a something stuck under your saddle about something. Just say whatever it is and stop trying to be so witty (because it isn't working).

soooo.... you ARE complaining about profit margins. got it. thanks.


**implied facepalm**

You can't hold up the other end of the conversation. I'll just stop responding.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Stay Feral
#246 - 2013-08-23 20:26:33 UTC
Incindir Mauser wrote:

Get capitals out of W-space entirely.


Iyeemmmmeehhh. Wow, onomatopoeia is hard. I could see not letting caps be built in C1-C4 wormholes, but they have become an integral part of C5/C6 PVP and PVE. Doing C6 sites without capital escalations would be ridiculous, it would take 10 Tengus and then nobody would make enough isk to make the sites worth it.

And you want to add Sleeper caps while removing player caps? No, just no. That would be absolutely impossible.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#247 - 2013-08-24 08:46:23 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Doing C6 sites without capital escalations would be ridiculous, it would take 10 Tengus and then nobody would make enough isk to make the sites worth it.

ah... kids these days. so little imagination.

a) it takes 6 tengus tops
b) tengus are TERRIBLE for group pve and are only used by the ignorant and incompetent.
c) running C6 sites in guards and T3s is still the most enjoyable PVE ive ever done and it nets plenty of isk.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Isolde Guermantes
Binary Aesthetics
#248 - 2013-08-24 09:21:49 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Doing C6 sites without capital escalations would be ridiculous, it would take 10 Tengus and then nobody would make enough isk to make the sites worth it.

ah... kids these days. so little imagination.

a) it takes 6 tengus tops
b) tengus are TERRIBLE for group pve and are only used by the ignorant and incompetent.
c) running C6 sites in guards and T3s is still the most enjoyable PVE ive ever done and it nets plenty of isk.



Aye but who has the balls to ascertain just how many guards are required? Lol
Winthorp
#249 - 2013-08-24 09:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
Isolde Guermantes wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Doing C6 sites without capital escalations would be ridiculous, it would take 10 Tengus and then nobody would make enough isk to make the sites worth it.

ah... kids these days. so little imagination.

a) it takes 6 tengus tops
b) tengus are TERRIBLE for group pve and are only used by the ignorant and incompetent.
c) running C6 sites in guards and T3s is still the most enjoyable PVE ive ever done and it nets plenty of isk.



Aye but who has the balls to ascertain just how many guards are required? Lol


4 is a good number, can easily be done with 3 until one of them disconnects... then is fun times for all.

Never done that in C6 admittedly, only C5 so could be different.
Hiidaykin
Doomheim
#250 - 2013-08-24 17:36:52 UTC
About soloing wh signatures (c3 or c4 mainly).The idea of having to run a radar\mag with another person to maximize profit at the hacking stage is limiting and not fair for solo runners.I can ocassionally manage to tractor all desired mini-containers but most of the time i lose profit especially in relics with the malfunctioning parts.Soloing a c3 radar\mag is already more time-consuming and more dangerous than pre-odyssey with all these changes.

My suggestion is,since we also have to fight the sleepers,to limit the amount of mini-containers spewed after the hack.Not in such a way that a solo ship can easily tractor all containers but in such a way that a solo ship has actually a chance to do so (hard enough but possible if you are fast and accurate).In non-wh space radars\mags dont have npcs to fight.So in wh give a difference in the hacking stage with the suggestion above.
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#251 - 2013-08-24 19:20:59 UTC
Hiidaykin wrote:
About soloing wh signatures (c3 or c4 mainly).The idea of having to run a radar\mag with another person to maximize profit at the hacking stage is limiting and not fair for solo runners.I can ocassionally manage to tractor all desired mini-containers but most of the time i lose profit especially in relics with the malfunctioning parts.Soloing a c3 radar\mag is already more time-consuming and more dangerous than pre-odyssey with all these changes.

My suggestion is,since we also have to fight the sleepers,to limit the amount of mini-containers spewed after the hack.Not in such a way that a solo ship can easily tractor all containers but in such a way that a solo ship has actually a chance to do so (hard enough but possible if you are fast and accurate).In non-wh space radars\mags dont have npcs to fight.So in wh give a difference in the hacking stage with the suggestion above.


C3/C4 sites are not meant to be soloed. While many of them can they were designed with small fleets in mind.

Also the amount of loot POST odysseywas increased 100% to account for the loss of cans if you are solo. so even if you lose half the cans you are still even with what you had before the changes.

Event Organizer of EVE North East
DrBmN
Lippstadt Creed
Solyaris Chtonium
#252 - 2013-08-24 20:07:59 UTC
Give back the old scanning system how it was.

The new directional scanner is a complete nonsense, it was far more interesting to fly in wh space before the last expansion.

Wormhole space became to newb friendly, same goes for the whole game.

I started to play EVE coz it was hard.
Hiidaykin
Doomheim
#253 - 2013-08-24 20:57:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiidaykin
ExookiZ wrote:
Hiidaykin wrote:
About soloing wh signatures (c3 or c4 mainly).The idea of having to run a radar\mag with another person to maximize profit at the hacking stage is limiting and not fair for solo runners.I can ocassionally manage to tractor all desired mini-containers but most of the time i lose profit especially in relics with the malfunctioning parts.Soloing a c3 radar\mag is already more time-consuming and more dangerous than pre-odyssey with all these changes.

My suggestion is,since we also have to fight the sleepers,to limit the amount of mini-containers spewed after the hack.Not in such a way that a solo ship can easily tractor all containers but in such a way that a solo ship has actually a chance to do so (hard enough but possible if you are fast and accurate).In non-wh space radars\mags dont have npcs to fight.So in wh give a difference in the hacking stage with the suggestion above.


C3/C4 sites are not meant to be soloed. While many of them can they were designed with small fleets in mind.

Also the amount of loot POST odysseywas increased 100% to account for the loss of cans if you are solo. so even if you lose half the cans you are still even with what you had before the changes.


These are facts which i agree.But the new mechanic doesn't compensate for the increased risk & time spent in relation to pre-odyssey at the hacking stage.Especially when you need to tractor the mini-cans.At that point you are vulnerable like never before.

Also the randomness of this mechanic is quite more excessive than the randomness pre-odyssey.Losing your focus for jusr 1-2 seconds or a few miscalculated clicks and you will lose enough cans.I could hit 180-250m on some c3 relic sites,and i was well worth that compensation for my efforts.This is very rare now.

In any event i think its a bit odd someone can make 100-150m at a nullsec mag where he risks a cheap fit with no npcs to fight,but in wormhole some have to risk a 1bill+ isk Tengu to make usually the same and under best conditions a few dozen mill isk more.
Kinraka
Things To Do...
#254 - 2013-08-25 11:23:37 UTC
To be honest the worst thing about WH is PI tried setting up multiple accounts and ended up throwing my cup at the oven

[u]Sheep shagger from way back [/u]
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#255 - 2013-08-25 13:02:56 UTC
Kinraka wrote:
To be honest the worst thing about WH is PI tried setting up multiple accounts and ended up throwing my cup at the oven


...what?

Event Organizer of EVE North East
Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
#256 - 2013-08-25 14:35:39 UTC
ExookiZ wrote:
Kinraka wrote:
To be honest the worst thing about WH is PI tried setting up multiple accounts and ended up throwing my cup at the oven


...what?


I think he's trying to say a planet inside a wormhole threw his cup at the oven....

I would have paid to see that.
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2013-08-26 01:42:47 UTC
Riel Saigo wrote:
ExookiZ wrote:
Kinraka wrote:
To be honest the worst thing about WH is PI tried setting up multiple accounts and ended up throwing my cup at the oven


...what?


I think he's trying to say a planet inside a wormhole threw his cup at the oven....

I would have paid to see that.


I loled.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#258 - 2013-08-26 11:14:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalel Nimrott
I dont know if this falls exactly in wormholes or in a more general categorie, but we should be able to answer each other without quoting a wall of text when the other person post is just above yours.

Sincerly, Kalel Nimrott.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#259 - 2013-08-27 00:13:35 UTC
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
]Wisdom


QFT

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Yaaar's Revenge
Lightning Squad
Snuffed Out
#260 - 2013-08-27 01:08:33 UTC
I completely agree with the point about showing new signatures on the screen as they appear. Whilst it is alot nicer to look at that the old spreadsheet to a degree I think that it should ONLY display them when you have probes out. That way when you're flying normally you don't see all the sigs in system. It is only when you drop probes that you see what is in the system. That to me sounds a lot better for wspace as it keeps things unknown and mysterious

Follow me on Twitter @Yaaars_Revenge