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Skill Discussions

 
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EVE's greatest strength - is also it's greatest weakness. The SP grind for new players.

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Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#221 - 2013-08-23 02:18:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Capt Shippo wrote:
My question to all the veteran players is: If a 50% reduction of learning all skills would result in an online population of several 100,000 vs 40,000 to 50,000 would it result in a better level of play in the game?



Probably not.

Going off how I came up in the game many tard mistakes were made in the early part of the grind weeks and months in the game. My often used used example, if you can't fly a rifter worth a damn wolf is not going to fix lack of actual playing skill, nor is a hac. Rough edges not smoothed out in cheap ships become real expensive mistakes in t2. Extra time in rfiter you presumably l2p the game better.

I had a friend young, single, good paying job power level via plex and char bazaar. Skipped the "pain" of the grind. Week 1 in eve flying hacs and recons. And blowing them up like a noob tard. He left eve, will give it a bad review to any who will ask him. I and others blew up our cheap frigs and t1 cruisers, made our noob tard mistakes cheap so that t2 ships a much less painful learning experience. We stayed on for however long (I am 3 years running, going on 4 soon). SP can't fix lack of playing ability. I know bitters with relatively low sp cyno alts they gave some combat skills who are jsut as deadly with the 100mil + main. You fly frigates for a few years, you tend to get good at it eventually.

Also this sets up eve for the same issue say WOW has. Blizzard subs wax and wane in great numbers to make for iff server populations. Here is why. New expansion comes out, people wake up thier accounts. Then Blizzard goes looky looky, we have say 10 millions players. They raid hardcore, spam pve, power level and months later go....well I am done, all content done 10's of times over. See you next expansion blizzard, I'm out. Then blizzard haters love ot show they lost 2 million subs here and there. Blizzard is dying they say. Nah....those 2 mil will be back next expansion.

Faster players get to "end game"...the faster they get bored of the game and move on. Its really pick your poison here. I prefer ccp's choice tbh. it gets a consistent game population at the very least. Vice booms and burst cycles tied to expansions. And unlike WOW, eve does not have an endgame that has mass appeal.

Eve's endgame is pvp. King of low sec, the politics of 0.0, the carving of wh space. IF a player reaches the higher tiers of empire pve and goes is that it in say 4 months and they get bored they won't be coming back if pvp is not their thing. With ccp's setup ccp is hoping somewhere in the months to achieve pve mastery if a bear...maybe you will dig the pvp as well. Worked for me. And others I know. My pvp bug hit when one night some friends said lets go hit low sec for lols. Most of us diaf'd like idiots....but had loads of fun in the process. Fun enough to do it more and more.
Neuronia deBuissy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#222 - 2013-08-23 23:23:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuronia deBuissy
I started a month and a half ago, totally lost. Started a thread asking for some advice, was told repeatedly to join a friendly corp and skill myself up some piloting and gunner skills. Got my ass handed to me in my Gallente newbie ship then trained up Navigation, Targeting, Frigate Command and a slew of other skills like Mining, Astrometrics and so on. Once I got gunnery, piloting and navigation skills in the 4-5 range there was an absolutely massive difference in combat survival. Rats that would just explode my Destroyer were now being destroyed by me. I could "shield tank" a good amount of them and then move on to the next batch.
My corp told me about aligning and warping out and so on, helped a great deal.

This is not a game where you can just boot up and take on the world on day one. You are going to have to take the time, probably a few months or so, to get the "core" skills done and then you will be on your way. Speaking of "core", the Core Competency certificates are a great way to start, they will get your targeting, piloting, energy management and other items up to snuff so you do reasonably well out there. I was personally curious about the differences between Vexor and Thorax so I got a PLEX, sold it and fitted both out thanks to some nice Battle Clinic loadouts; my productivity and enjoyment increased tenfold since these were much, much more survivable than my Catalyst (and I loved that Catalyst...doggedly ran countless level twos in that thing!) and they let me go into NullSec and poke around there.

You just need some patience. In two to three weeks I'll have Cloaking at 4, Covert Ops at 5, Bomb Deployment at a fairly high level and my Nemesis/Helios will be kicking booty! Honestly the best thing I ever did was get a PLEX and sell it on the market. With the cushion of several hundred million ISK I no longer had that stress of not making much progress from just running agent missions.
It allowed me the opportunity to "field test" (more on this later) some ships and pick one that was right for me. Oh, my Corp is freaking AWESOME and taught me all about NullSec, pointing out enemies in Local chat and on the galaxy map and so on.
I think I've lost one ship in the past few weeks and it was a total brain cramp on my part too.

The skill system is the way it is so that while you skill up you'll learn how the ship control system works, how shields work, how piloting works and when you join that (hopefully) great corp they will answer all your questions. From there...freedom!

Oh yeah, about field testing. it would be nice to have some sort of holo console where you could get a standard fit ship and fly it around or something. Another game I enjoyed had a central hub where you could try all the powers if you really wanted to, then revert to your original build. That's probably too much for this game, but some kind of loadout template would be nice ingame.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#223 - 2013-08-24 04:17:01 UTC
I do have to agree with the whole "more != better" sentiment. EVE isn't for everyone, and making it easier to attract more people would probably have devastating long term effects on the game. While the advancement does seem crushingly slow at times, taking the time to learn as much as you can about what you can already do before expanding your options further is just good sense. As pointed out by several posters in here, the actual skill of the player involved often factors more heavily than the character's skills.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Antony E Stark
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#224 - 2013-08-26 18:57:51 UTC
Sweeet wrote:
I was going to post this in that “other” thread, but I don’t want the OP’s attitude to sully what I believe to be a very important issue for new players.

Being a new player let me add my point of view. This will be the third time I’ve come back to EVE, but the first time I’ve lasted longer than a month. I’m actually going on 3 months now, but here’s the catch – I’ve barely played at all these past 3 months, why? Because the sheer volume of SP needed to put oneself in a Battleship with Tech II weapons is overwhelming to say the least. Also yes, I joined a corp with a veteran player, he showed me all the ropes, gave me a taste of the good life, even if I couldn’t do it all myself – which makes this entire debacle even worse... New players read about all the awesome things going on within the game or see them, sign up to get a taste of it, then promptly cancel because they realise just how long it will take to do all those awesome things, they realise just how long it will take to actually fly what they really want to fly.

And yes, Tech II weapons, not Tech I. Tech II weapons with Tech II Ammo and the appropriate skills can have as much as a 50% advantage over Tech I, and that is not something to be taken lightly (I googled many forum posts about the difference between Tech I & Tech II with appropriate skills levelled, up to 50% was the general consensus). The advantage may not always be as much as 50% I know, but this brings me to my second point.

Most people who play MMO’s are of a particular breed, they want to be the best they can be in the physical sense, i.e. be wearing the best gear possible regardless of player skill. EVE is the only MMO out there, that has such a punishing “gear grind” for new players. I’d say it’s a fairly safe bet to assume the majority of people who try EVE and then give up within the first month, do so because the difference in SP between new and veteran players is simply far too overwhelming. The length of time it takes to fly a decent ship with Tech II weapons can take 2-3months if not longer, and that’s doing nothing but skill up for the Battleship you want to fly. If you want to skill up other core skills it is going to take you even longer... That, to new players, is THE proverbial brick wall.

This finally brings me onto the title of this thread – EVE’s greatest strength, the ability to skill-up whilst off-line, has ironically become the game’s greatest weakness. Now I love the fact I can skill-up off-line, the feeling of progressing whilst not playing is absolutely glorious. However, in the ten years this game has been out, not a lot has been done to bridge the SP gap between new and veteran players. The fact the game literally forces you to have more than one character/account if you want to specialise speaks for itself.

Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoy EVE, I enjoy everything it stands for. But, I also can’t see any logical reason, any at all, for not putting better measures in place to really help bridge the gap between new and veteran players. Here is a simple fix that I would propose:

Now that the game has been out for 10 bloody years, give all Tech I requirements, ergo the appropriate skills and level, to new players, but ONLY in the field they choose to specialise in when creating their character, be it in Combat, Trade, ect. This would leave in the requirement to have a second character if you want to specialise into something else, whilst helping to break down that seemingly unbreakable wall for new players. Allow the new players to use all the Tech I goodies from the get go, so they can actually try the game out properly and decide what Tech II fits they want to specialise into. This would go a long long way into retaining A LOT of players. Hell I’m only still here because I’ve grown stubborn over the years P

What harm will it do? Veteran players will still woop all the newbies bottoms, so no problem there. What good will it do? It will keep the new players that want to play the game seriously, well playing, by making the game feel more accessible. You know those players that currently quit because they feel the game is insurmountable.

10 years... 10 bloody years worth of SP and skills, yet the game is pretty much using the same model for new players now, that is was 10 years ago! Now if that doesn’t scare away new players, well it certainly should do and it does. I should know. CCP should know.


You can run level 4s in a t1 fit raven with skills to l3 or 4.
In the meantime you can be running 3s in a BC and gaining rep, earning ISK and gaining experience. Since all skills only go to 5 there's no way the game has a block to new players, it's not like vets can vastly outstrip newer people - only in terms of choice of what to fly. For now, specialise, stick on that path and once you've achieved that then diversify.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#225 - 2013-08-27 13:38:31 UTC
Silver Getsuga wrote:
...I'm new player and I find current skill mechanics is great...
I am newer player and think the system is flawed.... just not in the same way the OP thinks.

The skill mechanics are great for me: so many goals and opportunities, but to the bitter vet... what does he have to look forward to? CCP tries to add new ship classes and skills, but often it throws the balance of the game off.

This game offers all kinds of nice skill enhancements... nice little doors to improved abilities... until your reach a certain point and then you are cut off. It varies by player, but a dedicated PvPer, uninterested in anything else will cap out, then the pressure will start on CCP to add more relevant skills. Skills that enhance the Vets experience without giving them the "I Win Ability". I am not sure they can do that for another 10 years, and the likely out come is that the Vets will simply not have truly viable/interesting skills to train. One of the really cool and enjoyable parts of the game... 'skilling'... will be denied them.

I think the skill mechanics are flawed... not sure how to fix them... not sure if there is a fix.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#226 - 2013-08-27 18:02:27 UTC
I remember all too well when I first started a few years ago and was mighty distraught by this same concept.

After many spreadsheets, EFT fits and EVEMon plans I can tell you this:

75% of the utility of most (if not all) skills in this game are trained in 25% of the time.

Don't take anyone's word on anything in this game, find out for yourself.

Most people in this game are terrible at it, and I don't say that lightly, its true.

Not today spaghetti.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#227 - 2013-08-28 19:32:54 UTC
My thoughts on this topic are here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=272976

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Lady Immortal
Mature Content
Strictly Unprofessional
#228 - 2013-09-03 06:51:41 UTC
Sweeet wrote:
I'd love to see all the naysayers here relinquish their accounts for a couple of months for new ones whilst forgoing all their contacts within game at the same time, so they can see how bad it has gotten for new players. That would soon change their tunes.


This is actually something some of us do once a year for a month or two for kicks when wars grow boring or we just don't get fights.

5-10 of us reroll new chars for a few months throw 5-10m at it and run around in t1 fit frigates/dessies by day 3 and just murder random ****.

Obviously we're in it for the pvp and dont mind blowing a bil or two on plex's for a character/account we'll delete/forget about. But any complaint regarding competitiveness should be out at this point. Once I get more time off over the winter, I may do the exact same thing I did last year this year.

As a new player you might not be aware, but CCP used to publish certain stats about characters, isk etc.

(unfortunately this is something they announced stopping in 2012, with no real reason offered.) but until then it let people squish these complaints needlessly. They did very clearly state however that the average age of a character was 7 months. If you had 9million skill points you were above-average!

This has likely changed, 11-12? maybe 14 as retention seems to have actually improved in the past two years rather than dropped.

Anyway it's tough as hell to get an engagement in small gang if your older, When people see that your sub 3 months old they are so much more willing to undock and fight. Enjoy it while you can because it disappears soon.
Viscount Hood
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#229 - 2013-09-03 11:22:38 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
I have several comments. I doubt I can make them fluid/flow, but here they are.

1st and foremost:
SP does not = fun and it does not = experience.

I believe the game has an 'evolution process' built into its design.
The idea is that you do your free trial account and figure out if you like EVE and want to commit.
You can see that it is a huge game with endless paths and careers. They all take a long time. This is actually apealing to many, many players.
So then, you start in small ships. Learn about skills, ships, weapons, careers, corporations, etc. First thing you learn is: I need ISK for this, that, and the other. Small amounts of ISK for small skills and small ships. There are actually several intertwined evolutions all going on at the same time.

Most people don't have a clue what they want at this point. They enjoy the graphics, they like a complex game, they see potential.
They will be influenced by each human contact they make. This point is critical. If some dude advises them they will suck for the next 5 months... They might believe him. Or if some other dude coaches them, gives them achievable goals, they will probably move right on up.
I seriously believe that it comes down to personalities. People with a 'glass half full' or 'glass half empty' point of view.

Fact is, you can get past the first month of "I dunno what to do, I nead advice" and sit in a T2 BC at the end of your second month.

It's not a skill point "Wall". It is personality traits that make people quit. For most EVE subscribers, All they need to know is, The wall CAN be climbed and I am going to climb it.

I'd like to add, You could give that 2 month old player all the skill points in eve and give him a T2 fit BS just like mine, but chances are he would never beat me. Giving newbs bigger better ships will just insure that they take harsher losses early on.
But on the off chance that he could, is that the future you want for EVE? That 2 month old characters can just kick ass on 5 year veterans? At some point it would devalue your own character.

Of course veterans have a strong opposition. They have the most time and money invested . (Aside from CCP themselves)
The 2 month old newb? Not much invested.



I can't even begin to follow the whole thread, however this post early on sums it up pretty well for me.

I'll add to his first and foremost line;

1st and foremost:
SP does not = fun and it does not = experience. and does not = win.

furthermore I am an original 2003 player with 150mil sp. I am not a vet.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#230 - 2013-11-26 11:33:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Silver Getsuga wrote:
...I'm new player and I find current skill mechanics is great...
I am newer player and think the system is flawed.... just not in the same way the OP thinks.

The skill mechanics are great for me: so many goals and opportunities, but to the bitter vet... what does he have to look forward to? CCP tries to add new ship classes and skills, but often it throws the balance of the game off.

This game offers all kinds of nice skill enhancements... nice little doors to improved abilities... until your reach a certain point and then you are cut off. It varies by player, but a dedicated PvPer, uninterested in anything else will cap out, then the pressure will start on CCP to add more relevant skills. Skills that enhance the Vets experience without giving them the "I Win Ability". I am not sure they can do that for another 10 years, and the likely out come is that the Vets will simply not have truly viable/interesting skills to train. One of the really cool and enjoyable parts of the game... 'skilling'... will be denied them.

I think the skill mechanics are flawed... not sure how to fix them... not sure if there is a fix.


The pressure is not on CCP to create more skills to be trained for veteran players; the pressure lies with veteran players to actually USE the skill points they trained for content creation.

Nothing is broken... well, figuratively ;D [CCP does their best] I think it usually comes down to expectation management.

Thank me later :D
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#231 - 2013-11-26 16:06:33 UTC
Let's talk about progression.

World of Warcraft:

Level 1: I want to be a hero! I'm going to do all the raids and pvp.
Noob Area Guard: Cool, you'll get right on that but until then I need you to kill 6 boars.

Eve:

Day 1: I'm going to scam, run missions, and do huge fleet battles and get a Titan and do wormhole space!
Aura: Cool sounds like you'll have a blast in Eve, now please inject the Armor Repair Systems skillbook and add it to your training queue.

Every game has a similar notion that you start off fresh and through time and/or effort you become something more. The point is that if you give people too much it's like using game genie. While it is fun at first to have all the codes the game quickly becomes pointless and loses retention.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#232 - 2013-11-26 16:14:44 UTC
*sigh* We finally get one bad threadnaught locked (<3 ISD Dorrim Barstorlode), only to have this one necro'd.
Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2013-11-26 17:02:40 UTC
Zor'katar wrote:
*sigh* We finally get one bad threadnaught locked (<3 ISD Dorrim Barstorlode), only to have this one necro'd.

I saw this thread necroed and I nearly did a headdesk, but opted for a facepalm instead (after removing my glasses).
Soutiken Jin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#234 - 2013-12-02 21:42:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Soutiken Jin
Ive been playing eve on an off for 4 years now. I've quit and rejoined the game three or four times. I certainly prefer the eve skill system over the grind in other mmos. There is a satisfaction that comes from being patient and advancing your character. The fact that i can still advance eve while im not playing is a major drawcard for me, as im always busy. That being said, ive literally paid for the last 3 months only really logging in for a couple of hours.

I feel that ive finally hit the skill barrier where i am comfortable in eve (22m). Im also 4 years older and more patient, but i can now fly quite a few different ships, tank both shield and armor fairly well, and use a few different weapons systems well. Until this time, I never actually felt comfortable in eve. Perhaps in my head i over exaggerate the advantage high skill players have over a low skill, but it does put you off. There is a kind of powerful and satisfying feeling to having a decent whack of skillpoints. I remember all too well how it felt to have not many sp, and it actually does feel pretty shite. Now that i feel like ive completed the basics, i can enjoy the game.

The argument that you can join a fleet battle on day one is true, but its not always that simple. I was part of a corp who mined, took out lots of shield fleets and bomber fleets. I was armor tanked and couldn't fly a hulk or a bomber. They probably would have let me tag along somehow, but it was disappointing. I didn't want to spend the time to train shields to a decent level when i had other goals, felt fed up and quit.

I highly doubt the SP training times will change, but i actually do think they are too long. Im just not sure a t2 battleship for me is worth $30 AUD and a 60 day wait. I can buy a whole new game for that, with a whole world to explore. Sure, im also paying for access to the eve universe, but frankly pve hasn't really lit my fire. I hear of people grinding level 4's and mining for fun, but i just cant wrap my head around it. I think that if CCP cant make the training a bit shorter, and retain its customers, perhaps they need to look into how to make eve more fun. If part of my brain handling dopamine signals from the intermittent reinforcement in this game wasn't hijacked, i think id unsub. Finally, now that im happy with my skill set (i feel personally ready to enjoy pvp).

I just personally think that in eve, the skill point system is a little too much of a barrier to fun. CCP should rely on more exciting content rather than the 20 minutes of joy i get from BS V being trained.
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#235 - 2013-12-04 14:55:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivo Dresden
Go back to WoW, for God's sake. Every month we have this argument, and none of you bothers to read the previous one.

The game doesn't revolve around Battleships or large T2 weapons. Hell, this character is 8 months old and I've not even bothered to inject battleships; or large weapons for that matter. I'm having plenty of fun with my frigate or cruiser.

The problem with people like you is that they think Battleships are the end of the world. The MUST HAVE. The problem that comes with that is once you realize it isn't, you'll be equally bored as before and you'll just quit again. Good riddance too to be honest.

I would say come join RvB and have some fun in a frigate, but I'm not sure EVE is your game and I'm not sure you have the right attitude for it.

EDIT: To answer the reply just above this one. If you are paying $30 just to train T2 fitted battleships, you obviously aren't playing the game. I pay my subscription to have fun, have a laugh with the corp guys, join a fleet and maybe even shoot some guys. The skilling up is a side product. I don't pay my subscription JUST for skill points. If I wanted to do that, I would buy PLEX instead and buy a character. Maybe that's more up your alley.

EDIT2: Seriously, what's with the necro. It's not like the OP is still around. :c
Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#236 - 2013-12-08 02:42:35 UTC
People only look at one skill at a time and see, oh look, the new guy is only behind 2% because of this long-term skill. However, it's much much worse than that. Each 2% and 5% skill the new guy doesn't have stacks on top of the old one, and soon enough, he's operating at 75% of what the veteran is at. That's the point of the skill system.. and it's very ignorant to say a 5 month old character has even near the skills of a 10 year veteran pilot in terms of SP.

Compare a 10 year pilot with a 5 month old pilot in Vexors. T1 cruisers.

Standard fit, T2 plate/armor reps/dcu/EAM, Web/scram/mwd/cap booster, heavy blasters, hobII/Hammerhead IIs.

Let's list the skills that take more than 7 days to fully max out a T1 Vexor. Since this new pilot we're looking at has been alive for 5 months, that's about 20 weeks or 140 days, 7 days is about 5 percent of the new player's total SP pool.

This list is only looking at the Lvl 5 skill training times, I'm not even taking into account lvls 1-4. It may seem insignificant to a 3 year veteran, but even one day skills are significant for a new player.

Armor:
Hull Upgrades V - 10 days - 5% Armor
Armor Compenstation V - 9 days each - 2% Resists
Armor Layering - 15 days - 5% mass reduction

~ 5% less effective Armor than a veteran

Drones
Combat Drone Operation V - 9 days - 5% Drone damage
Drone Durability V - 25 days - 5% Drone health
Drone Interfacing V - 25 days - 20% Drone Damage
Gallente Drone Specialization V - 25 days - 2% Drone Damage

~27% Less Drone damage from a new pilot than a veteran

Engineering
Advanced Weapon Upgrades V - 30 days - 2% PGU on Weapons
Cap Management V - 15 days - 5% bonus to Cap storage
Thermo V - 15 days - 5% less burn
Weapon Upgrades V - 9 days - 5% less CPU on Weapons

New player has less fitting reqs (needs to use PG/CPU implants where a veteran can use DPS/Navig implants), can't overheat as long (20% damage/armor rep/resist bonus), less cap for weapons/neuts/reps

Gunnery
Controlled Bursts - 9 Days - 5% less cap use
Medium Hybrid Turret - 15 Days - 5% more damage
Medium Blasters Specialization - 25 Days - 2% more damage
Motion Prediction - 9 Days - 5% accuracy
Rapid Firing - 15 Days - 4% ROF
Sharpshooter - 9 Days - 5% range
Surgical Strike - 19 Days - 3% dmg
Traj Analysis - 25 Days - 5% falloff accuracy

~15% less damage, less range, less accuracy.
Combined with Drones... ~ 20% less total dps already

Navigation
Accel Control - 20 Days - 5% MWD boost
Evasive Maneuvering - 9 Days - 5% agility
High Speed Maneuvering - 5% less MWD Cap

Less speed, less agility, even worse cap skills...

Rigging
Armor Rigging - 15 days - 1% less speed
Hybrid Weapons Rigs - 15 Days - 1% more PG

just some extra stuff to hurt you


And to top it off... Gallente Cruiser 5 - 25 Days.
5% damage bonus to drones and guns.

Totally, you end up with a ~5-10% Slower Vexor, ~25% less DPS, a little more than 5% less armor, everything you use takes more cap, and you have less overall cap, and you have to use a suboptimal fit or buy PG/CPU implants.

You can't just look at one skill and say it makes a ship. Everything works together, and when you're new, everything works against you.

To fully max out a T1 Vexor's lvl5 skills, it takes 400 DAYS of straight training. So when people say a new pilot is capable of being even on a comparable level to a veteran, they are spewing complete ****.
Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#237 - 2013-12-08 11:53:54 UTC
Quote:
EDIT2: Seriously, what's with the necro. It's not like the OP is still around. :c

It's a conspiracy, I tells ya. [/tinfoil]

Also, *headdesks*. Ouch.
Wildthing Mileghere
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#238 - 2013-12-09 18:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Wildthing Mileghere
I propose the following:

One year paid sub without interruption: 7.5m unallocated SP (with your remap)

Two year same as above: 7.5m unallocated SP (with your remap)

....and so forth and so on......

However, I am also unopposed to "working as intended". A new player could earn quite the respect and cash just as a tackler or scout. What OP is talking about is like starting day one at Wal-Mart or McDonalds and instantly wanting a Lexus and a $300k house. The math just doesn't add up. Typical of today's youth---Instant gratification.

Cheap clones and super cheap loss mails are where its at imo!
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#239 - 2013-12-10 05:43:57 UTC
Cheap T1 frigate
Scrambler
Webifier
1mw Afterburner/MWD

So long as there are blobs you will never lack for employers.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Bladir Anninen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#240 - 2013-12-11 23:15:14 UTC
Hi. Noob here.

In post #236, Baron list some things that would make a new player less efficient.
However, without to much focus on the appropriate skills (I have points in e.g. social, mining, trade, survey etc.) , I still expect to be able to fly a BS with mostly tech II gear after two weeks in-game (i.e. in 2 days), with the exception of guns of course (which would take another month, even if i did nothing else).

While I wont even have 4:s in most skills, and thus will be even worse of than Barons hypothetical character, I still do not see why this would put any big limitation on your gameplay as long as you don´t focus to much on PVP.

In fact, when I see all the discussions about "blitzing" this or that, it rather looks like the game only works for relatively new characters (except for PVP), Im now 12 days in, and lvl 3 security missions have been pointless (i.e. without excitement) since at least day 8 (yes, you could fly a bad ship, but then you do not care about whether you loose it). Thus, 8 days into the game, gaining reputation with a new faction/corp will largely be about grinding.

If anything, I am currently worried that character progression is to fast (but maybe - probably - I am missing something).

I do, however, wish that you could opt out of PVP during, say, your first month.